New clutch fitting problem?

Discussion in 'Transmission' started by Rustbuster, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. Rustbuster New Member

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    Hi,
    Just fitted a new Sachs clutch to my ‘84 (EV) GTI and after putting on the gearbox checked the point where the release arm first contacts and starts to engage the clutch which is higher than the 9 o’clock position where I would expect. There’s a case bolt head to the left of the arm which if in that 9 o’clock position the arm would point directly to. My arm is actually pointing above that case bolt which I think is awfully high? Is that too high to fully engage the clutch? Sachs kit is the right one (part number 3000 082 003). Assembly is good, new thrust bearing (genuine VW), rod is 340mm, and I did have the flywheel refaced. Any thoughts I’d be much obliged.
    Thanks,
    Justin.
     
  2. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    can you upload a pic?

    but tbh when I do these I dont worry too much about clutch arm position just set the clutch cable to about 10mm free play then hook up starter and drtiveshafts. try cranking it over with pedal pressed, make sure car doesn't move. try again with pedal released, car should move. if that checks out, carry on putting the car together :)
     
  3. Rustbuster New Member

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    Thanks John, I don’t have any pics unfortunately as I took the box back off before photographing. Dumb git! The main thought I have is that the clutch won’t fully disengage with the travel left in the release arm and associated parts but will probably be ok as it’s wasn’t far past the 9 o’clock position. So long as you don’t think that the arm past the 9 o’clock position is the end of the world I’ll put it back together and give it a go as you suggest. Is it easier to install the box with the drive shaft flanges removed as I’m working on my own?
     
  4. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    think it would be more of a pain as you would then have to try and get the circlips fitted while the box is in, what I do is pop the ball joints out the bearign carriers and if needed the track rod ends out to get a little more swing room on the shafts. always gonna be a strugge on your own no matter what way you go about it, but it builds character and moral fibre :lol:
     
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  5. Rustbuster New Member

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    See your point! I’m going to make a tool cos I think mk2’s have the spring loaded flanges which may make life difficult. I’ll see how tricky it is on the bench then decide which way to go. I’m replacing the flange seals anyway so no biggy. Ta!
     
  6. Rustbuster New Member

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    Hi guys, I’ve taken a few photos of the release arm position. Can’t figure out how to attach em to the thread though? Perhaps a little tech help too? Sorrryyyy!
     
  7. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    once you get a few more posts you can host them to the forum :)
    have a look at http://www.broke.com for lots of reference information, if the kit is sachs that side should all be fine. if theres an issue it'll either be the push rod or release finger inside the box. both will come out once the green cap is removed so no need to pull the box again to double check
     
  8. Rustbuster New Member

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    Thanks John. Really appreciate your input but I’m struggling. Put the box back on and release arm remains just above 9 o’clock. So to check clutch function with minimal assembly (in case box needs to come off again) I came up with the idea of nipping up the three box/engine 19mm bolts and then connecting the clutch cable up (manual type), putting it in gear (directly at the box as all shift linkages are off) and then getting my 10 year old daughter to floor the clutch pedal while I lie under the car and try to turn the flanges by hand. So with clutch floored (and release arm fully up) I should surely be able to turn a flange by hand or am I being a bellhousing??? Anyway, couldn’t. Clutch stayed disengaged and couldn’t turn the flange. Am I right in thinking that if I put it all together I’m not going to be able to get a gear? I’ve looked at Broke’s info which is all v.good. Finger and rod were all fine and measured 23.4mm throw on the rod with release arm fully up. Other odd thing is I had to put an 11mm socket on cable below release arm to take up slack in cable otherwise pedal was halfway to floor just taking up that slack. Something’s a miss and I just can’t figure it?? Thanks.
     
  9. Rustbuster New Member

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    Today I took the release arm out to check the actuator finger and it all looks fine. There is some slight wear on the finger where it contacts the T/O bearing and on the rod where it contacts the pressure release plate but combined it’s probably less than 1mm which if replaced may move the release arm down a fraction but surely not enough to take up the slack in the clutch cable that I currently have an 11mm socket as a spacer. I’m sure the release arm is too high (slightly above horizontal) cos the pedal has resistance as if the rod is pushing on the PP ok but the pedal bottoms out before reaching the floor. Had another go at turning the flanges by hand with the clutch pressed to the floor and no joy. The only thing I can think is wrong is the clutch kit, esp the PP but it’s Sachs so cant be??? One possible explanation of the slack in the clutch cable is it stretching. But would it be poss to stretch 2cm or so? Cheers guys.
     
  10. Hotgolf Paid Member Paid Member

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    I’m still going with an incorrect clutch kit or the release finger. The finger can look fine but until it’s under tension you won’t see the crack.
     
  11. Rustbuster New Member

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    Hi M, I’ve almost got it all back together. Just need to fit the drive shafts and a new pushrod and finger. So hopefully we’ll see tomorrow. I should have done as Johnny advised and just put on starter and shafts but I’ve taken a leap of faith and gone for it. Plus fact she’s up on ramps so any unwanted lurch could be a bad news.. Keep your fingers crossed!
     
  12. Rustbuster New Member

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    This is release arm position. I will need my 11mm socket back at some point

    1E01A028-0C9F-402A-B47B-9776647C7A48.jpeg
     
  13. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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  14. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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  15. Rustbuster New Member

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    That looks like a good idea with the bigger rubber spacer. Got it all back together today and I’m afraid no joy. Reverse just wants to grind and all forward gears locked out. I put in a new rod and finger (genuine VW) parts today and adjusted cable (with 11mm socket as spacer) so that pedal will not physically go to the floor while the release arm has reached its limit of upward travel, in theory giving the pedal the best chance of releasing the friction plate. I’ve ordered a new cable but can’t see how it’ll help release the clutch given there’s no more upward movement available on the release arm. Is it worth trying to give it a jolt to see if it will free by cranking in gear with clutch and brake pedals hard in? Wish I’d taken your advice Johnny and just installed starter and shafts. Live and learn. I can only think it’s the clutch kit somehow? But it’s a Sachs kit and I’ve double/triple checked the part numbers against VW part numbers and it’s supposed to be correct. Only thing I didn’t check before install was runout on friction plate cos I don’t have the equipment for that. Guess it could have been bent/damaged in transit. Any suggestions gratefully received.
     
  16. Rustbuster New Member

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    Oh, sorry Johnny, yes, clutch pedal stop is ok, pedals are all lined up.
     
  17. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    yep does seem like the clutch kit is to blame then, I've never had any issues with sachs kits but strip it back down and have a close look at it all in particular the release plate make sure the dimple in the middle is ok. see if it looks like a new one or a remanufactured kit, post pics etc.

    good news is you'll now be a master gearbox swapper by the end of all this...
     
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  18. Rustbuster New Member

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    I’ll get back on it soon. And will post pictures as I go. I will get it sorted and keep this thread updated with what was wrong and what the fix turns out to be. Defo be of use to someone in the future cos it’s a real head scratcher!
     
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  19. Rustbuster New Member

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    Ok, so a development today. I tried starting her in 4th gear with the clutch pressed down and the brakes on to see if starter torque could overcome the friction if we were anywhere near having the clutch disengaged. And that worked! With subsequent tries didn’t even need foot on brake. There is then even a little upward pedal travel before the clutch starts to bite and labour the engine. However, once I take it out of gear and release the clutch and then try pedal down again and select a gear no joy. So I think the clutch is only dragging slightly but enough to pick up the gearbox and hold it thereafter. I plan to try to brake the clutch in (or wear the initial crap out of it) just to see if I can bed in (or burn) a bit off the friction plate to eliminate that dragging. I figure what’s the worst that can happen, I have to replace the clutch, be no worse off than I am now.
     
  20. Rustbuster New Member

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    So following the success from yesterday I took her off the ramps (steady on, drive on, not lifting ramps) and took her for a spin. Clutch seems to be bedding in. After the initial use of starting in gear, clutch disengaged, foot brake on to free up the friction plate things seem a lot better. I can now mostly get into gear from neutral, if she won’t have it I just quickly switch off engine, clutch disengaged, pop her into first, start engine then off from standstill as normal. Shifting up and down the box while moving doesn’t pose any issues. This is all with the pedal fully down and there’s very little lift before clutch bites but she is driveable and hopefully as the friction plate wears things will get better. Also, fitted the new c.cable that arrived today and the old one had stretched significantly. After which I was able to remove that 11mm socket needed as a spacer. So things are looking up. And to think I nearly started stripping everything down again while she was up on the ramps. Thank goodness for a pause for thought. But thanks to Johnny and a Martin (Gas ‘n Gears) for your advice and assistance. The machined flywheel makes for a real smooth clutch bite and the re-balance has made a huge difference to smooth out her idle. Before the dash used to shake at idle but now I think I could do the 50p piece on its edge Rolls Royce showpiece. Again, I’ll keep this thread live with any further developments but in meantime she’s back!
     

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