Oettinger, Graf, KR and ABF heads - How much do they flow?

Hot wash. Scrubbing. Then all oilways and coolant passages were masked off and the head was media blasted. Hot wash again. It looks like a fresh casting now, doesn't it!

 

Nein Herr Danzter

A bit of Wiki:

http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oettinger

....translated

I give you the 5-valve Oettinger engine - click.

See the Oettinger 2000E. 94.5 x 82

 

Romain,

Have you ever seen any flow results from an Oettinger head? I would be very interested to see some because of the smallish diameter of the valves.

 

Not really wanting to mess up the thread Chris.
Those links show that some liaising happened between VW and Oettinger then?

You have seen that awful Audi head with offset valves in the BTCC thread. It is shocking as you say. I find it hard to understand why the compromises were made. I think Neil H sums it up with his point about it just being a road car and marketing trying to create something great to sell to Joe Bloggs out of what they already had. Even the 1.8 8v engines were just a stretch of the earlier big block 1471 to 1588cc engines. The long stroke working ok for general road use. You can see the lengths they went to in the BTCC thread to make it work though. Attempting to work around the basic stock engine.

As for the 20v link, 260 PS? A 8v can make that if turboed as you know. Without all the valves falling to bits. 20v cannot have been that good as they are back to 16 with the TFSI or whatever it is called. Funny how it has now got reasonable valve angles and combustion chamber shape though. Probably forced on VW by emissions regs rather than performance.

 

Yes Oettinger were an unofficial developer of VW concepts is my reading of it. The 5-valve.. there's never been a proper reason I've seen about why they switched back to 4-valve, but after however many years with the 1.8T (6+ ?) they obviously tired of it. 260 in 1985 ain't bad!

The 4.2 Audi is rubbish, no question. Bean counters taking the mickey, bleeding the lot dry. The 3.6 was just economies of scale, you can see the argument and they still do it. The flipping V10 Gallardo has got FSI bits in it I understand, so presumably the R8 too?

Everything has been stretched really, from EG to DX to KR to 6A/9A/ACE to ABF/2E etc to AEB. 25-odd years there ('76 to 2003?), out of the same block components. Still, we can't complain!

 

Oettinger were already develloping tuning parts for the golf gti
Before the actual gti was out
They got delivered the car few month in advance

The reason why vw went back to the 16 valves is because it work better
It s the very same reason why yamaha who made the 5 valves their trade mark
Is going back on 4 valves on all their racing engine
The 5th valves disturb the front flame even tho it flows better

I haven't gas flowed my head yet but will be happy to send to someone for the science
Before the big valves
From what I know they prime on port velocity to big valves will slow the gas down
But to small port will choke the engine at high revs

 

Hi Neil...

Are these flow figures, both ABF & Graf, with or without valves?

I've not seen anything like that on ABF's with valves fitted, and 9A's show less again, tho end up in the sam ballpark when ported.

Yr Graff project looks interesting, go on, get the burrs out!

 

Hi Jason,

The 121 cfm on the ABF was with valves out, but guides in. So BPF as I would call it. I can't recall the exhaust side, I think somewhere around 80 cfm.

The Graf was 121 cfm on the inlet too and a whopping 135 on the exhaust. Same test, so no valves. What the Graf did do though, was flow up to the BPF figure with the valve in too, and only at around 10mm lift, so the valve shape is a good match to the head.

I never had the ABF tested "valve in" in standard form so I can't comment on OEM flow there. I obviously had it done when done though.

 

Is their anyone in london area with flow bench?
And how much would it be?
My oettinger head is slightly port and polished and the valves are off
It would be interresting to see the difference between the graff and the oettinger

 

they gave up on 5 valves due to direct injection. 4 valves gave slightly more room for the injector etc.

 

Recon. that you are spot on there boss.

First instruction: Keep the exhaust manifold, and system, just where it was.

Second instruction: Keep the alternator mountings, and access thereof the same.

Third instruction: Keep the K-Jet set-up as the 8V.

The third instruction actually lead to the very expensive inlet manifold. This manifold would actually give better torques, as it is soooooooooo very long and has lots and lots of curves. But it still gaves less torques than the 8V at some rpms.

 

Can they not test the Graf with valves in for you Neil?

An ABF makes 110cfm on the inlet with valves, so I'd imagine the Graf to be within a couple of that with the valves fitted. Go on, get the diegrinder out!

 

Hi Jason,

The Graf was indeed tested with valves. Valve in flow at 10mm lift was the same as BPF. The grinder will be out, but only to tidy up really, no radical enlargement or re-engineering to be done on this one. I think it is too rare to completely re-work. What are peoples thoughts on this one?

 

Yes, I heard that at 250 rpm the 8v has more torque. Something to do with the starter motor

 

Dont touch it at all I would think.(ever)

 

=> sig

 

I know that my engine guy has one, obviously. Unfortunately, nothing gets in his "clean room" unless it is clean, as in, spotless.

I guess flowbenches are also a little like rolling roads, all a little different...

 

Well I guess it would make more sense if we do a comparison from the same bench
As all benches like you said might be different

For the head cleanliness that s an issue easy to get around
And now I know what to do to have a spotless head like yours

 

I know what you mean Brian. It is having new tapered race valve guides as matter of course, and a gentle reface too. The rest will almost certainly be just a tidy up of casting marks and defects. I'll keep you posted.

 

GET... THE... DIE... GRINDER... OUT!

If you were going to put it on a rotating stand for all to see an old tuning component then maybe you could leave it as is, but, when it's on an engine... who will know, or care. Get in there and make the best of it... if your too scared ().. pass it down here!