Pierburg 2E2 woes with pics..

Discussion in 'Carburettor' started by Cooper_si, Feb 25, 2008.

  1. F45T GTI Banned

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    get a webber 32/34 dmtl from a webber dealer or gsf, no menacing vacuum pipes just ecc cable choke cable and easily set up with some knowledge or a competant engineer,
     
  2. EZ_Pete

    EZ_Pete Forum Junkie

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    ^^Did you miss the bit where he said he didn't have any spare cash? ;)
     
  3. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Well at last my vacuum pipe arrived from the states. Got to admit, I had a blonde moment when buying it tho. As US cars are LHD hey, so the vacuum pipe is way shorter than it should. So my "modding" skills came to hand and mated it to my existing pipe. Woo hoo...at last a pipe thats not blanked off!

    Right. Pete I checked the TTV and got the figures below which look promising !

    TTV - Resistance 8.5 Voltage 11.23v
    Electro Valve (Upper) - Resistance 27.8 Voltage 11.26v

    Ok now started the beast up with the new vac pipe on, and knowing the TTV is working correct, and it starts clean, for about 4-5 seconds then starts hunting and blowing white/blue smoke from the rear. If you hold the revs for about 3-4 mins and wait for the hunting to clear (sounds like a misfire) it then starts to idle much better than before, yet a little high. But that can be fixed as and when really.

    So im hesitant to replace the inlet manifold gasket at present along with the sealing ring (which im yet to still get) And I still need that pesky wax stat....so im guessing at the minute its the wax stat thats being the problem.

    At least I know in the back of my mind its all been stripped apart, replaced all the vac lines and that that the elec valves are working right.

    :clap:[:D]
     
  4. EZ_Pete

    EZ_Pete Forum Junkie

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    I trust that your servo pipe joining is suitably bomb-proof... Not something to have fail on you unexpectedly TBH.

    Glad you've made progress, but it does sound a bit like your pulldown unit may be causing troubles. Here's a copy'n'paste suggestion for you:
    Worth another look, I think.
     
  5. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    Hi Pete, Oh yes that hose is 110% spot on. There will never be any probs with how it is ;) I did a vacuum test on the hose just to make sure.

    I will get the choke flap checked out next then, if thats what you suggest, should be able to do that sometime tomoz :)
     
  6. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    Hi Peeps, back again :lol: Just been out to the Golf and started up from cold. The flap doesnt move an inch...unless...

    1) I push the flap with my finger
    2) Or i rev the car

    Ive got a vid eo being uploaded at present that i took from start up. You can hear the engine being clear for a few seconds, then the engine starts "chugging" and you can just tell the engine note and the engine rocking away. Then obv once i push the flap slightly the note of the engine is much better.

    So looks like a possible pull down unit ? I did the following to check...

    pull down unit
    to check for vac leaks in this unit attach a pipe to the lower port and unplug the upper port. Suck on the pipe. The arm should move a small amount and then stop when the vac collapes. Then if you put your finger over the upper port ad keep sucking the arm should withdraw a bit more and hold vacuum. If it fails to hold vac then replace.


    When i suck on port A the arm does move but then returns back after ive run out of breath. When i block port B exactly the same happens, moves slightly then returns back when im out of breath...soooo technically its a defective pull down unit ?

    Video link up in a sec :)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2008
  7. Cooper_si Forum Member

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  8. EZ_Pete

    EZ_Pete Forum Junkie

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    It does sound/look like your pulldown unit has a split diaphragm. It's not easy to see exactly the dimensions on the video, but it looks like it is managing to pull the choke flap to the first stage of opening, but not to the second stage (5-6mm gap). And your sucking tests seem to confirm that it doesn't hold vacuum.

    Your carb is fairly filthy, which won't be helping matters; could be causing the choke flap to be a bit 'sticky'. Get the engine up to full temp, then hose the top of the carb, and down both barrels with carb cleaner, holding the revs up a bit to keep it running at a fast idle.

    It also seems like the autochoke electrical heater might not be working, as I'd expect that to be causing the choke flap to open a bit within a couple of minutes, even with a duff pull-down. The connection is the reddish plug/socket in this pic of yours, I think:
    [​IMG]

    Unplug that connection, and with ignition off measure Ohms from the short wire going into the autochoke housing, to batt negative. Hope to see 12-13 Ohms. Then, with ignition on (and a completely cold engine) measure volts from the other half of the connector to batt neg. hope to see 12V or thereabouts. If you don't get the 12V at the feed, check the relevant thermoswitch as in the FAQ.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2008
  9. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    Ok, we got 12.4ohms from the autochoke housing. The engines still a little warm from the running session earlier so will wait until the morning for further testing on other items.

    And got some carb cleaner on its way to clear down the top of the carb, i think the camera made it look worse than it is, but no harm in giving it a clean up hey :)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2008
  10. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    Well got to do some more testing, and im not getting anything through the longer wire.

    Took both switches out and tried testing them from extreme cold to extreme hot, and nothing changes...on either. The grey switch looks damaged/dented on the sensor part so i guess i mite aswell change them both for what its worth [:^(]
     
  11. EZ_Pete

    EZ_Pete Forum Junkie

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    I had to replace my grey thermoswitch as it was open-circuit all the time.

    Before changing the red one it will be worth your while establishing whether your hedgehog is alive or dead. Similar test to the autochoke heater, disconnect the hedgehog at it's inline connector, and measure resistance from the short wire to batt neg. Should be around 0.25-0.5 Ohms. If it reads substantially more than this your hedgehog won't be doing anything, so no point in changing the thermoswitch.

    You can live without the hedgehog working. It does improve air/fuel ratios during the first minute or two of running, as it helps to prevent fuel condensing out on the cold manifold walls, but doesn't seem too noticeable in terms of running IME. May be more vital in Scandinavia etc. Draws significant current during the first 3 or 4 minutes of running from cold (15A or so).

    I presume both your thermoswitches measured open circuit (infinite Ohms), regardless of temperature?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2008
  12. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    Yep there was nothing from either switch. Looking at the condition of them, they look pretty shot. No difference in Ohms in either hot or cold situations.

    So for the heating elements we have...

    Hedgehog:
    0.55 Ohms (Short wire)
    Ign on voltage: 11.7

    Autochoke Housing:
    12.4 Ohms (Short wire)
    Ign on voltage 0.10v (technically 0 lol)

    I was reading with interest the O ring probs, and im happy to say my autochoke gets very hot after a few mins [:D] All the linkages seem very slick so that kinda rules out any stickyness :lol:
     
  13. EZ_Pete

    EZ_Pete Forum Junkie

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    Good news on the 'hog!

    Surprised you got volts at the feed wire though, unless you've already bought/acquired and fitted a good red thermoswitch (or did you link it out int the connector?). That thermoswitch allows 12V to get to the coil of a relay, which then switches the heavy current to the 'hog.
     
  14. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    Ahhh good point, when i tested both the switches they had no change. So i guess yeah wierd that ive got any voltage coming through from the red switch now. Oh im stuffed if i know! Im trying not to lose any faith...honest :lol:

    So a grey switch and a PDU then is required [:v:]
     
  15. EZ_Pete

    EZ_Pete Forum Junkie

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    Two possibilities: either the thermoswitch was always "on" i.e. conducting, or your relay ("1" written on it IIRC) has its contacts welded together...(easy to check, pull it out, flip the cover off and have a look, or just measure Ohms between the relevant pins)

    But yeah, keep the faith and sling a new PDU and grey thermoswitch at it :) . Probably worth getting a new o-ring to go with the thermoswitch, and maybe a spare fixing clip, both pennies.
     
  16. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    Pulled out the grey relay (number 1) and it looked spot on. Just to check it was working with ingnition on, i replaced the relay without the cover on, and it was working fine. So thats another one off the tick list ! :lol: Grey temp sender on its way from ebay in the next day or two, just sourcing a PDU now.

    Where would we all be without your knowledge Pete...when are you getting knighted ?? :clap::lol:
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2008
  17. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    Well im still waiting for both grey switch from ebay and the PDU from GSF for 22.91 (Part Number 18175)

    Went for a long drive though yesterday to huddersfield for some MINI modding (as thats my full time job) and the golf drives really nice when your on the road, but come to a stop and its like chug chug chug, and when on over run, the exhaust pops, with a little black smoke [:$] So i must apologise to the residents of huddersfild for a little black puffs of smoke while driving around :lol:

    Oh and keep an eye out for an unmarked silver 04 plate volvo estate in huddersfield, i ended up behind it at one point and it had all the camera stuff in the back for tax/insurance evaders!
     
  18. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    Woo hoo, the PDU and grey sensor are in there place, both fitted very easily. Its amazing the difference between the new and old PDU....like night and day!

    Now the engines abit hot to see how the cold start goes, but still when running hot its abit lumpy, then when you close the choke flap a little it runs ok...but im yet to clean the top of the carb down as ive still not got any carb cleaner.

    Role on the morning when i can give an update of the cold start..... :)

    P.S. im wondering if the CO screw has been played with ? Is there a setting i can use or will it have to get metered up by a garage ?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  19. EZ_Pete

    EZ_Pete Forum Junkie

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    You could give the CO screw a turn or two in each direction to see what happens to the idle; but really you need a decent gas analyser (i.e. MOT station) on it to double-check anything you do 'by ear'. Book target is 1% CO, with breather disconnected from airbox while measuring.

    Try the clean-up first though.
     
  20. Cooper_si Forum Member

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    First turn of the key......its running ! yay...no lumpyness at all :clap:

    until.....

    3-4 minutes starts running lumpy again..ha ha. Doh. So seems ive cured the cold start, but now the prob is when its warm. Talk about role reversal ! [:^(]
     

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