Probably not, but still nice when hitting 8500 to just ram it in lol. In a valver too Still helps with a shi tty cable change.
Right. This is the problem. Your targets do not take into account the engine's torque curve i.e. torque per speed/load site. On a production or after market engine, all things being equal and subject to good engine design, I can sometime hit in excess of bhp targets just by selecting the rpm and adjusting spark angle for a given fueling set point till the cylinder pressure goes into knock. But what about the rest of sites required to "climb the hill" or power out of a corner. Horsepower sells cars and Torque wins races. Recently I evaluated a vehicle that was mapped on a dyno and measured "500BHP@7400rpm" Needless to say the vehicle drove like crap. Sure, it may have had the torque and rpm to measure the said power, but the drive was rubbish and low speed fuel consumption was atrocious. After optimizing each load cell for max torque and then tweaking the off-boost load/speed sites, the car is much more responsive on the run up to 25psi of airflow from GT3071R Huffer. It may have more measured W/BHP as the torque at the same rpm point may have increased. Or it may have the same torque at this rpm point and much more lower down. We also drove the vehicle in load areas that were not mapped on the dyno and found these to be very lean. Once more this had to be corrected. I have also driven ABF engined vehicles from members on this forum with an alleged 170BHP and again the vehicle was flat and there was no response. Again the approach is to ignore all the BHP this and dyno that and tweak based on drivablity to refine the torque delivery. Toyotec tip: These peak dyno numbers mean sod all to me. Its all about refining the drive and increasing wheel force through out engine range. What I am saying to you it this. If you were to upgrade from a 8v engine and step to a ABF on factory Siemens PCM you will notice a difference in engine character. Install a stand alone and this will allow you to change factory limits to unleash more torque from that motor. I got both 8v (3A) and various 16v cars (9A and ABFs) that run standalone ECUs with very optimised maps. All engines are base engines. The 16v feels like an animal compared to the 8v. And my 8v, for a stdish motor, is not that slow either. From here if you think that you need to hang on to the this torque for longer then components to increase to air mass into the engine ( headwork, cams, lager valves) or produce greater cylinder pressure (compression ratio, cam timing events, over bore), as well as keep the engine robust ( rods, fasteners, valve springs, reciprocating mass weight reduction and harmonics) can be investigated. Cost for improvement needs to factored in if you update existing power train of if a new unit needs to be installed. Ultimately you want to increase your available force , Newtons, at the wheels of radius d in meters to go faster. These things take time, money and patience. If done methodically the cost can be offset in time, but it will cost.
DSG would be nice, in theory, but as yet no standalone controllers I can find, im not smart enough to make one, I hear of torque issues with them and also I'm not sure they will change at high revs either - they should be better as the synchros will change on an unloaded shaft, and a DSG is heavy
because diesels have really big torque peaks. its about torque across the range, not just one point spanning 100rpm at 7krpm to produce a great headline bhp figure. a great headline bhp figure does not necessarily make a good car
first plot i found, its a 2.0 tdi. great peak torque, but hardly consistent, its non sustained. it wont feel good to drive and wont make it as fast as a good spread delivery would. a big steep delivery like that will make a car feel nippy (a la 20vt) but hardly an ideal power delivery. im still meaning to get mine gteched. not done that in a while and ive done some minor tweaks... the aim is to see how well its producing power across teh range, not looking for peak figures.
They have higher peaks points. But the range of rpm where they sustain this feat is shorter due in part to the burn rate of diesel. This is countered by tall gearing which in turn adds drag and thus subtracts from the net force to push/pull the vehicle forward.
However you would find this type of curve to be typical for most makes of OEM vehicles. The low down bump on the both 140 and 170ps TDi makes it feel fast and can be rewarding if you drive WOT around this area. Having driven both examples. Most customers find find this type of "time to torque" acceptable. And marketing are quick to captivate this by selling the vehicles on the peak BHP/PS ratings among other things. However its a different thing during development
IMO - its not torque that wins races - its sustained torque and the right gearing to make use of it - and thats why diesel engines still dont win that many races and why well developed petrols still rule but like you say, its only a matter of time - driven a bmw 123d ? what a car, 2L twin turbo diesel, all ali engine, 400Nm - fast as f I have a 130pd that has Revo software, makes 170hp and 300nm torque - its a rocket - quicker than my 1.8T 230hp quattro in a straight line - and a mega road car with its 6 speed box
Lemans is an endurance event and diesels use less fuel = big advantage in this particular arena The audis and peugoets were the most advanced entrants by far - pukka factory teams with mahoosive budgets
The point being, you can't simply say "diesels will lose races" or "diesels will win races". You can subtly alter the goalposts (as Matt82 has said) to make it easier for a diesel to win, and so long as a team comes up with a diesel, dots the i's and crosses the t's, it will win - the other teams predicted it from close observation of the way the rules were set. But, Toyotec's point is the most valid - don't simply aim for a power output figure (and in any case, the thread title asks for 180-200 - a range!) but back it up with a half decent power delivery.
ive just thought of a really simple example. remember on gran turismo when you could tune the pikes peak scudo to 1800bhp? remember how that thing drove? it was like an on-off nuclear bomb power delivery. an extreme example, but it shows that without a usable delivery, massive peak power is practically useless lol
