Ultimate 8v's - F3 / Supervee / Judd / Drake / Spiess Engines- Info Request

Discussion in '8-valve' started by drunkenalan, Jul 6, 2009.

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  1. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    Im would like to collect some information together on these engines, does anyone have a any links or infomation that they are willing to share.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
  2. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    I've got some info which I've been meaning to put on the vwmotorsport site.

    I don't know whether there's anything on setting up the TBs - is that the Q?
     
  3. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    partly chris, I thought it would be interesting to see whats out in a similar manner to the Audi BTCC 16v thread but 10 - 15 years older!

    My uncle used to work for Judd in the 80's but cant really remember any of the details.
     
  4. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    Al - I know someone who's got one, but it would help if you asked more specific questions.
     
  5. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    some pictures of the head would be good, the dry sump system also the fuel injection setup.
     
  6. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    got a load of pics from Ralt hillclimb cars (ex-F3 cars) so will see what I have
     
  7. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    Mike if you could find out, i would be interested to hear what size valves they used.

    I have an old motorsport mag from oct 1982 in which they test drove a David Price car which was to be driven by Brundle, they also interviewed John Judd. who was pretty cagey with the details but revealed a few things.

    the engine was based on a 1.6 unit, they were running a CR of 12.2:1 with out to many problems unless you were under 3500 rpm. the cranks was of their design but they would reveal the bore & stroke altho it was pointed out the the newer GTI' used a 86.4mm stroke.. the engine wasnt particulary high revving at 6200 rpm delivering max power which was around 160 bhp mark, it was the levels of torque that was surprising apparently.

    the fuelling was a lucas system, apparently working in similar setup to the higher formulas around at the time, and it was a hewland type 9 gearbox
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2009
  8. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    I'd expect it's a custom crank - Holbay did one for GTI Engineering, so could be similar. It would need a big overbore (offset?) to get to 2.0 without a 90+mm stroke.
     
  9. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    just done some sums

    and 86.4mm crank with an 85mm piston would only give 1961cc'
     
  10. Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    I am not 100 pc certain but I have an 80's rallycross unit that was supposed to be
    F3.
    I still have the top end, the bottom end went pop. It has a 40:35 head with massive ports. It used to run a GS8 cam,
    forged flatop pistons mahle
    head is a chambered pre gti casting and had a nice dry sump system that used a cosworth pump (whole setup sold)
    It was on early 48dcoe's that I still use on my 2L
    Hope this is of some interest.
    It will live again.
    Jon
     
  11. mr hillclimber Club GTI Supporter and Sponsor

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    Some were at 82.25 x 94... 1998cc.

    Most F3 engines are not built to take big rpm... small crankpin journals, very light weight (thin) rods, big c.r etc... it's all about inertia, or lack of it, to make as quick a pick up/response as possible as all F3 type engines over the years (VW, Honda, Toyota etc) have run on a restrictor that limits breathing/ peak power (but you no doubt knew that bit), so performance is (obviously) maximised as much as possible in other areas.
     
  12. drunkenalan Paid Member Paid Member

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    more from the article.

    the F3 restrictor they ran was 3mm x 24mm

    and the head they decided to use 'VW Golf GTI semi-Heron head' <- the exact words used.

    Camshaft development was a problem for Judd cams required regrinding after 1200 miles compared to the engines that needed rebuilding after around 2000 miles.

    peak torque was at 4800, peak power was between 5200 and 5500
     
  13. MUSHY 16V

    MUSHY 16V Moderator Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    and

    [​IMG]

    Drake engine
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2009
  14. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    ooh... more, BIGGER pics please!
     
  15. MUSHY 16V

    MUSHY 16V Moderator Moderator

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    just found them on google
    still looking for more

    i may no of some one how used to have f3

    he use to come in to my last work as a contractor
    we used to speek about it because he knew i had mk1 gti
    and it had lucas fuel injection
     
  16. MUSHY 16V

    MUSHY 16V Moderator Moderator

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  17. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    I know someone who's got a Judd one, but I was interested in pics of yours...
     
  18. MUSHY 16V

    MUSHY 16V Moderator Moderator

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    not mine wish it was
    found the pics on google images

    i will try and get hold off this guy mike
    and see if he still has any info on it
    the last time i saw him he said he did and was going to show me it
    but i move jobs befor that happend
    he used to hillclimb it up hear
     
  19. chopperoli Forum Member

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    I believe John Judd (amongst others) was a builder of the Super Vee engines which were based on 85bhp 1.6 Scirocco engines with Cosworth parts, giving around 180bhp or so. I have some info on these, if it's relevant.
     
  20. MUSHY 16V

    MUSHY 16V Moderator Moderator

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