means new manifolds and cams tho eh! and i think you need to machine the head for a dizzy too, so big big job But vortexer Nate is running 11s quarters in a 2.0 20v NA corrado so the potential is there however vw motorsport got 280+ bhp out of the 16v head so i wouldn't abandon it just yet, but they did use a big bore/short stroke setup 85mm bores, anyone know more? ridgeway racing had some 85mm 20v pistons recently...........
I agree, problem with NA20V is getting pistons that will allow big increase in CR which is needed for big power motors - as stock the 20V is miles better than the 16V but after some mods, the 16V ain't that bad either. I have thought about this myself recently but have shelved the idea of a NA20V due to the large cost associated with buying all the 'nice' bits again (cams/TB's/verniers/sumps/manifolds etc etc). All this lot buys you a lot of new engine bits for a 16V. A dizzy can be fitted to a NA20V in the block (a-la-8V) but this will require different sized timing/intermediate shaft pulleys and a different sized cam belt tensioner. Volkspeed do a kit of parts to do this. You then need inlet and exhaust manifolds - there is an inlet available to take DCOE centers but no exhaust to my knowledge - custom job. Cams wise, schrick do a GpA set for big cash. Newman are thinking about it. So all in all, its gonna cost a pile of cash - and if you already have a 16V, this cash can buy you a full steel bottom end for eg. VWR's 260bhp engine was 90mm stroke and 84mm bore with a 12.8:1 CR. 8000rpm. Motronic ECU. Their 222bhp engine was more std stuff, 92.8mm stroke 82.5mm bore. 11.5:1 CR. 8100rpm. Digifant. There was talk about a 86 x 86mm engine but I would think this would be with a different block - 84mm is getting very thin on a 9A or KR. Not that I have thought about this much. Cheers Rob
Graham vanstones mk1 20v had a lot of bits custom made Billet cams 300+ from Crane They used a NA inlet and modded it for bodies JE pistons Arrow rods
just megabucks, by the time you have bought all that you could have built a copy of bills 20vt and put that in, or dare i say it sourced an engine from a different brand vtec on bodies =240bhp or an xe like oddballs
Not if your racing you cannot.......class rules. Change the engine and you are instantly in sports libra and have no chance whatsoever in a golf, even maurices. Space frame specials time. Put a turbo on and multiply cc by 1.7 to come to where you would be - 1.8T vs 3L NA cars but in effect over 2L cars - i.e 1.8T vs TVR's and other big V8s which with a decent driver would smoke a 1.8T (witness what has happened in british GT's to the very well prepared 1.8T golf that was running there). Of course all this is irrelevent if your a fast road / trackday fan but if you intend going racing at any point, its a no-go. Got to develop that 2L. Cheers Rob ps..just an afterthought...imagine what it would actually cost to transplant in a VTEC and put it on bodies....I would say easily 6-10K - this conversion to a Lotus Elise costs 9K and 5K into a mini without the TB's. What kind of a VW 2L 16V could you buy for that money......a 230-240 bhp one easily.....if only you could find a builder capable of this job Edited by: RobT
Have you any more info about the motorsport ABF's Rob? Any info would be welcome please Also, serious engine builders for VW's? Any info on that? Cheers ChrisP
Good thinking Rob i was thinking track days mostly if you are in a 2.0 class tho surely a 20v head would be bending the rules a bit? as VW never made one or is it just a capacity limit as for 10k for fitting it.......think designadubs could sort it pretty cheaply, what are we talking, mounts, shafts and wiring? www.16vmini.co.uk if it will go in a mini, it'll go in anything but i take your point. you could spend the money on tuning your existing 16ver. elise owners like scooby owners have a lot of money, so the tuners charge a lot, supply and demand really. Edited by: prof
Bits and pieces of info really - will dig around at home this weekend and see what other details I can drag up. Re. VW engine builders - seems they are a dying breed - I would also like to hear if anyone knows of any. Cheers Rob
In the class that I run in - 3b - modified production, you have to keep original block but internals, head and gearbox are all free. By original block, read 'externally identifiable as original or derivative of original and made of same material'. So you could run a full steel KR with a 20V head and a sequential box with sprint/rallycross ratios (max approx 100mph). If you could afford it. Only dont go over 2L. Mk2 escort boys run NA cossie lumps approx 240-260hp - not actually pinto blocks originally fitted but near enough to be called one. Its all about pushing as far as you can and getting away with it but a completely different engine would not be allowed. The original material comes into play when folk (with big budgets) try and put aftermarket ali or plastic blocks to use - eg you can get ali blocks now for Opel XE engines and a US firm called Polymotor started making plastic blocks with ceramic or steel liners for racing also - VERY LIGHT ! I saw a single seater car last year when the chap had made his own block from a big piece of ali billet - cool or what. You get some very cool and wierd things at the sprint/hillclimb meets. Cheers Rob
True, but its really hard to find out who builds them and even if you can find out, getting a reply is something else. Rob
sounds like some mad engineering going on there Rob, plastic blocks? i like the sound of that, got an injection moulding machine idle right here, not big enough for that tho sure revokev mentioned something about an alloy 20v block, but i could have just dreamed it
I was thinking for a trackday car, couldn't DCOE Webers be an idea instead of throttle bodies? You'd have the extra airflow of the 4 individual throttles etc and should be able to supply enough fuel. So I was thinking, 9A, flowed head, 276/268 Schricks, DCOE Twin Carbs, then a K-Star to give you fully mapped ignition. What about that? Joe
There is an all alloy 2.0L NA 20V in a few cars - some passats definately and perhaps A6 also. Dont know which cars for definate though. Rob
