Thanks Broke - I feel rather silly now as I 'found' the instructions you mentioned under the assembly lube - I had pulled one bolt from the pack to have a nosey at but have yet to open the rest of the blister pack. The 02A set also state that no washers are to be used and, incidentally, the torque for the 02A type set is 45lbft. I guess no locking compound isn't that unusual given that none is utilised on rod bolts ect. I don't feel quite so paraniod now. The irony regarding the pitting on the inner diff gears is that I have a perfect set of press-in diff gears but no drive flanges. I may or may not build the box to completion (adjust the shafts and diff) and then pull the old box and split that in the hope that the set on the vehicle at present are in better condtion and perhaps use those. The only other alternatives are to either use them and/or save for an ATB diff. One question with regard to the springs that hold the 3 catches in the synchro hubs; The Bentley is not clear on this but I assume the 90 degree bent ends of the catch springs have to reside inside the catch. e.g. This is wrong?: The replacement springs for the 5th gear catches have been superceded but I'm concerned about the raised ends: (anything to worry about?):
I wouldn't of thought so, all 3 of the locking peices are held by the spring I'm currently half way though the whole process myself. just waiting on adjusting shims prior to rebuilding I'd also advise fitting a later 02j oil pipe from later o2a casing. part number is tooked away in FAQ in transmission section. It picks up oil thrown off the diff and drops it on to 5th geat helical gears
Yes, that is wrong. The end needs to scoot over a bit and fit into the back of the hollow key. The other spring is offset 120 degrees, they just don't want the end of both springs into the back of the same key. I don't have an answer to that one, to be honest... I've never ran across springs with a slight bend on the straight end like those have. The new ones are bent? I would assume they install as you have them, with the bent portion lifted off the hub... that puts pressure onto the key. If the bent portion was flipped into the hub, it would be lifting the end of the spring off the key a bit, and you want more pressure. The greater the pressure on the spring, the harder the sync ring will work. The tension directly translates into the force with which the brass ring is shoved into the gear to match speeds. When you move the shifter and the forks in the trans start to move, they move the sliding sleeve of the sync hub assembly. The brass ring and the sliding sleeve and the sync hub all spin at the same speed, shaft speed, as they are splined to the shaft. The sync keys are also spinning with the hub, and they are what is catching the brass sync ring and making it spin with the shaft. The sliding sleeve isn't over the brass ring just yet. Anyway, as the sliding sleeve starts to move, the sync keys will be pushed into the brass sync ring, which pushes it against the gear, and friction begins working on the gear which is spinning on a needle bearing. It needs to be matched to the shaft speed to be selected. What prevents the sliding sleeve of the hub from passing over the sync keys, as you know from assembling them, are the springs holding the keys "out" (you need to press them "in" to assemble the hub and sleeve). The keys are in the way, and they fit into those detent spots on the inside of the sleeve. That's what shoves them into the brass ring. Eventually, the ramped face of the detent in the sleeve and the ramps on the keys will allow the sleeve to force the keys "in", over-powering the springs, and the sleeve will then slide... first over the brass sync ring, then over the small teeth on the gear. Ideally, friction has matched the gear to the shaft and the sleeve just slides right over and the gear is locked to the shaft, and selected. If the springs are weak, the sleeve can shove them "in" more easily, which reduces the time spent shoving them the direction the sleeve is sliding... towards the gear, and into the brass ring, which does the work we need. Thus, strong springs hold the keys "out" longer, requiring more force to shove them in, and this means they're being shoved into the brass ring with more force... and this means a faster gear change. It might be at a trade for wear, so making custom springs might help, but it may accelerate the wear of the sync rings and or the gear faces where the rings rub, but fresh stock springs are a good idea, and make for a fresh crisp gear selection Sorry for running on, I'm wasted Brian
Hi Brian Concise rambling is more than acceptable wasted or not I just tend to ramble ... Yeah the 5th gear springs are bent as in the pics. Fitting them 'upside down' to the way they are shown in the pics doesn't work very well either - The keys do will pop out as will they do if the springs ends are located 'outside the catch' which results in catches sitting twisted or not sitting fully flat against the outer ring - Bang in either case I was a bit worried when I received the new springs - The 1/2 and 3/4 springs are the same as the old items but 5th were different which threw me. I spent a good hour fitting them about 3 different ways to discover that 2 of the 3 possible ways resulted in the catches popping out when the ring is moved along the hub. Oh and on a side note for anyone wnating to clean/prep a casing. I've been reading up on how to clean/prep aluminium and it seems phosphoric acid is whats used. Hydrochloric acid is supposedly a no no unless you want to poison yourself. Anway to cut a long story short I went along to my local B&Q and after a bit of searching found this (dilute phosphoric acid): So after a wire brush to remove the worst of the oxidisation and a bit of elbow grease with scotchbrite, said cleaner & marigolds resulted in this: It's not perfect but it's much better than it was and I may etch prime and then paint with cheap aluminium paint to keep it tidy.
I found the oil feed pipe in the FAQs and will probably order one next week. Finally got the ARPs in the diff - What a hassle without a press; broke my old mans bench vice in the process (must have been fatigued) and had to resort to a trusty Carver clamp to press fit them- easy peasy. I'll hopefully get a chance later to re-clean everything and build the diff. Meanwhile I think I am going backwards - Had a check over the output shaft and I am a little concerned as I have found play (along the output shaft axis) between 1st, 2nd and the respective synchro hub. All new bearings were fitted including a new lock ring so I'm mighty concerned that something is amiss- I'm sure all the assemblies are fully home but perhaps I am mistaken. l'll take photos and post them up later with a more complete description.
I think vinegar is acetic acid; I think. I dont fancy phosphoric acid on my chips tho. Thought & care is a nice description; thanks Rob. I'm presently feeling more paraniod than carefull though EDIT: The concentration isn't stated on the packaging but it's active enough to give mild itching/redness/burns I could probably obtain the safety data sheet thingy for the product; I'll check the pacaging tomorrow and see if I can come up with some more info.
just picked up on this slight alteration, have pics on PC somewhere - for a 2 pound mod, worth it if box is apart
Thanks Crispy; It would be great if you could look out the pics - I've not yet ordered the part so from what I've been able to gather it looks like a bore through the end casing and some material removal from the bellhousing to facilitate the fitting? Well not much of an update to be honest. The diff, input and output shafts have been oiled up are sitting in the box which has been bolted together, taped and now biding its time. I just need a Park Torque wrench and a DTI 'boltable stand' knocked together (drawn up in about 30 seconds ) at my local machine shop to get it shimmed and close to finished. I'm starting a new job a week on Monday; not great wages but secure so hopefully I'll have it in the car by mid August. It's taken months now so I'm in no longer in any real rush to get it in the car. So while I'm at it I think I'll fit the oil feed, replace the bearings in the shifter segments with bushes and fit a stronger tower sealing cap. I'll then try to decide whether I can have the patience to hang on for a couple of extra months to save for a Peloquin; I know it will be worth it as I've had a quaiffe in on 020 in the past and I loved it! I'm now getting way ahead of myself but I drove an X reg Ibiza Cupra R last month and whilst I hated almost everything about the car inlcuding the terrible on boost torque spike I simply LOVED the gearchange; it was almost as nice as a well sorted 020 - So a MKIV shifter may be on the cards too.
yep your right with mods, i've pic of were i drilled a hole, and cut material out just getting my box together and found reverse gear catches first gear Synchro when 1st is selected while testing on rebuilding tired it with rest of box then built up - bar 5th or course, only thing i can think of is the wrong thrust washer must be installer before 1st..... the one i have left over does match the one i should have size wise on 5th!! think an early start on monday to strip shaft down....
Ohhh... Thats sounds unusual and potentially expensive! If memory serves there is only one thrust washer in the gearstack assembly that is located under the lock ring. Unlike the other thrust washers it is a shouldered affair that can only be fitted one way - It sits under first gear and the smaller diameter side sits on the inner race of the ouptut shaft support plate bearing and the larger diamter end sits on first gear. Quadruple EDIT (I'll get it concise yet!) : Just had a look at ETKA and the Passat Bentley and the pics I have taken. The shouldered thrust washer has a larger dimenson along the shaft axis than the other thrusts so if you have the wrong thrust fitted it may go a long way in explaining why reverse is catching the synchro as 1st and the synchro assembly will be closer to the bellhousing than it should be - I'm guessing there would be a significant amount of 1st gear endfloat with the wrong thrust installed? New thoughts EDIT: Okay I'm still confused on this one - The synchro hub can only be pressed so far down the shaft as it will finally rest on the shoulder that is the edge of 1st gears bearing face... 1st wuold have far more endfloat so maybe this is where the problem lies?- 1st is effectively further down that shaft than it's meant to be and then the selector can move further along the synchro hub and hence foul reverse? I'm just trying to figure it out in my head as it's now annoying me. The pics arent great but you can just see the thrust washer sitting on the output shaft here: Wish I had now taken better pics but I hope this helps?
no idea tbh, strip down need... not a happy bunny shaft re assembled couplke weeks ago, no left over parts - best go check my boot!
No wonder - I'd be super peeved too - Stripping the OP shaft is not my idea of fun. You could remove the OP shaft and post up lots of pics first? I'm sure Brian and certain other lurkers may be able to immediately spot if something is amiss? I've still to replace my reverse shaft bellhousing bearing so I can't yet fit reverse it to see if the above is plausible. EDIT: Potentially silly questions but better to ask than have to strip the output shaft - Is your reverse idler gear on the correcy way up? e.g. Bevelled teeth facing towards the synchro? Are you testing thew shifting with a fully assembled gearbox; if not have you moved the reverse forks and idler gear into their neutral position prior to selecting first? There are some good 02J pics on this site which may help to highlight anything obvious: http://www.funksoulkitty.org/ http://funksoulkitty.org/engineandtranny/tranny/02j/partscomparison/Pinion Shaft Gears 619.html
This is the only useful picture only thing i can think of is the trust washer is the wrong way around. there seems too much play in 1st gear - not much but it's just catching Embarrassing thing is I'm going to have to strip down in work & I've rebuilt / fixed a number VW boxes with my colleagues - typical I make a rookie error on my own
just seen your wanted ad, what do you mean by you want another set of "pinions"? the pinin is the gear that mates with the ring gear. that shaft on the back left of your last pic. so you mean the gears in the diff that the drive flanges bolt into? got a box full of 02a bits so i might have what you need just don't know what you mean.
Hi Phatty Your spot on as it is the 4 planetary? gears and centre shaft I require. Just used the name for the gears and shaft as shown in ETKA. PM me if you need to.
With regards to the extra oil feed from the later boxes. if you don't cut and drill this into the right part of the top casing it'll sit all wrong and won't do it's job properly. Measure and mark up twice-three times, and cut and drill once. I'd also put a pic up, but I can't access sod all on my old hard drive as I haven't bought a cradle for it yet lol. crispy, while yours is out, check there's no wear in the selector fork fork that holds reverse, and also check the base isn't bent. I've had this in the past when people have previously tried stripping a box without taking the top cover off properly, and trying to remove the internals in 1 go. Righty bloody mess! Justr worth a check over while apart. As for this Far too much interference there, it'll rattle itself loose in no time. If thats going into an original diff housing then the bolts are at fault.
