Regarding MK2 8v as quick as 20vT? Read below. This is my experience with two vehicles that I know for a long time and have been calibrating. You know I test everything so no bull****. 150bhp/160ishlbft 20vT/ 02A/J in a MK2 is warmish performance. All this spec of engine has, a bit more poke to 3500rpm and thats it. Totally gutless at 5.5-7K rpm due to torque dropping like a stone. Much slower than a frantic K jet tuned ABF on a 2Y 020 revving to 7200rpm. In 150PS spec a 20vT in a MK2 is as quick as my 2.0 8v on a standalone and 020 gearbox. A good working PB engine MK2 may have only a slight struggle to keep up if both drivers keep the engine in the torque zone. 175 BHP tuned 20vT (5303 turbo with boost wound up) is slightly quicker than a optimised ABF on KJet both with 02A/J gearboxes. The poke at 3500rpm is a bigger punch. ABF on standalone controller with good calibration is possibly tad bit faster still. On a 20vT, once the 5303 turbo is junked for a larger 5304 unit the torque can be carried later + 500rpm or so and at larger magnitudes ( with boost increase) with a slower ramp down as the engine speeds up. With these turbos the engine can measure 220-280PS with torque to match that measurement. Screaming valver would need lots of blessings, like a huffer or supercharger, if it were to keep up then. On a track however the linear character of a tuned 16v with a good short gearbox may mean that the surging nature of 20vT is no match. OE M3.8.x or ME 7.5 controls are security enabled and have diagnostics that monitor emission related faults running on the manufactures compromised calibration for a later MK4 Golf, 6K Ibiza, 3B Passas and so on. In an older pre 93 vehicle, it is fine to implement if you got the ECM as part of the package, you are not readily interested in calibration settings to increase engine output and you got the skills to clean up and debug the control loom. Yes idle, cold start and transient quality will be superior to some calibrated standalones depending on who mapped it, but higher loads and WOT performance are compromised. Still costly to update calibrations for a change in engine hardware. Plus a MK1 or 2 does not require that level of control refinement so a cheaper user accessible control system is more favourable. Now that is my 2p on this.
Never seen the attraction of putting a 150bhp 20vt in an early mk1 or mk2. The engines cost more than an ABF, and with all the wiring the 20vs require along with the cat for 150 bhp it does not seem worth the while. Different if you are going to be tuning the 20vt but the money you spend doing that you could boost up an ABF to give it a run for its money I imagine.
a mate has a tuned 20v t rallye with haldex runing gear.he is runing a 225 ttengine with costum je pistons,arp's throughout,ported head tubular manifold a gt3076bb and motec.last week he destroyed a tuned porch 911 gt2 twice and had a bit of a highway batle with an evo 9 mr400 and a scuby 22b.the tailights of the rallye must've looked prety nice from the evo the car has a dyno proven 456whp so its prety fast! would go for a 20v t any time,only thing is the cost for the convershion(14000 euros)
Did not say they couldn't make power but that is not really a standard 150bhp car by any means and at a price too.
most defenately no!but you can get an agu for 600-700 euros and get a good ecu for 600-700 again(haltech e6k for eg) and an uprated turbo like from an s3,and get desend power for a litle relatively money wheras to build a 9a lets say with about 200bhp again u will need twice as much and the 9a will be on its limit(n/a ofcource)and u will be just starting on the 20v
Lets face it tho, who would go to all the work of a conversion if they were gona run it at its standard level? Both engines are 150bhp standard but at least you have the capabilities in the future to increase the output of the 20vt, quite easily, and these days quite cheaply too. It does depend on the person as to whether they choose the extra work involved with the wiring but theres people out there who will convert your loom for not very many pennies at all. plus, no worries of running a cat in a mk1/2
The emissions should be getting checked for mot on the basis of the engine and not the age of the car I believe. See EDIT below. It is a bit of a can of worms with all the engine conversions going on. I suppose folk will be adding decat to insurance forms soon as it is considered part of the engine, and by removing it is seen as a modification. I freely admit they can make alot of power but a valver can make decent power without alot of hassles. It is pretty well established now that a std 16v head can make towards 200bhp with one cam changed and an increase in compression when the fueling and ignition is tweaked to suit. Not that expensive really. Any more than this and you will be struggling to put any power down without an an LSD anyway. If drag racing in a straightline is what its all about fair enough but round the twisty bits it is a different story. EDIT: Was asking my pal and MOT tester about this. It seems emission wise it goes on whatever is older, be it the car or the engine, so for mk2s and the like it does not require the cat test. Interestingly though if you put an older engine (non cat) into a newer vehicle (originally with cat) it would not need a cat test either. Can anyone confirm this?
Tis true... I had a 93 astra convertable (pls don't laugh) it was the 16 8v engine which was... well ****e, I dropped a red top in it out of a 90 gte 16v for a bit more poke.. I had to document that the engine was out of a pre 93 car i think via the engine number? It was a while ago.. anyhow I didn't have to have a cat test due to the engine being pre 93 when the legislaton came in..
Pro's and con's for both conversions really. If you go the Abf route its a doddle to fit and relatively easy to tune to 180ish bhp. If you wanted more you could always turbo it later when funds allow. Its cheaper as well. If you go 20vt its a more involved swap(not done it myself)but comes with decent power from the off. Easier to tune up but more pricey. I'm going the abf route for now(moneys tight)as its more practical for me. Then i'm going to buy another abf and tune it up as time and cash permit. Might go all in and stick a turbo in at a later date.
