1989 Tornado Red 3dr Gti 16v

Had near identical rust on my 85 gti and as said get the wings off to check as it wasnt pretty under there, I still cant imagine how you feel as my car was rough anyway but yours is a lovely car. I just patched mine up and used abit of filler, car is caged so I wasnt concerned about strength, should do a proper repair oneday, thought just check out Mk2s been broken locally till you find one thats solid there to cut up.

 

Like Andy said, If I were you i'd want to be looking further at the car to see wether it's worth fixing.

Needs a new scuttle......

 

Did you break the screen removing?

 

That's a bummer Mike. Really didn't expect to see that under there. I had a similar patch to you and I peeled back the surround and it luckily hasn't spread/rotted. As others have said, get the wings off and repair the a-pillar/where the bonnet hinge mounts to. Will make repairing the scuttle easier too.

Hope you get it sorted soon enough. Take a look at Gaddmeister's thread for scuttle replacement if you haven't alrady......

http://clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=228442&page=2

 

Looking at the pics again, where you found that small hole originally, is there filler in the panel there? I cant work out if its the light on the photo that makes it look like it could be full of filler.

I have a scuttle you could chop out if needs be. Its in good condition and has had a screen replacement in the last few years so not expecting horrors under there.

 

Hello not been on here for ages. That rust looks bad and I would be checking where the bonnet hinges are bolted at the end of the scuttle. However I think it looks localised.

Wish I lived nearer some of you guys as to me it looks like a workable fab and weld job.I am far more intimidated by mechanical stuff. No one up here wants to create a mates rates scenario.

I would cut away the rot with a thin blade on a grinder and a cut off wheel on a dremel very carefully and squarely. The I would just fab pieces to tack and join up the welds gradually. This would involve a lot of careful grinding but looks achievable. The dash would have to come out or at least loosened away. Most of the work would be out of sight.

Check this I did to my tail gate on my daily Scirocco which will be painted properly in better weather, (sorry i can remove some of the pics if you feel I'm clogging your thread)..

 

Holy sh*t

Real sorry to see that Mike. At least you have the repair sections readily available from the old car. Best of luck sorting it.

It's far too nice a car to let a bit of grot get in the way

 

Thanks for all the support / expressions of horror - were it not for the good people of club gti I think I'd have torched it by now..

This was my first throught too; however I had the arch liners out earlier, had a good poke about and thank fook everything seems sound:

Driver's side




Passenger's side




Passenger side A-pillar base; d/side is the same




Have inspected the tops of the box section with a mirror and had a good tap / poke.. and this section seems to have fared far better than the windscreen surround.

Cheers

Well tbh I can't see what else I can do at the moment; can't afford to have the car off the road, can't have any more workshop time and don't have the money to sort it yet. Once the seal's in I might try and get a bit of sealer in the gap to minimise the water ingress, although I know this can also harbour moisture.

BBT do a scuttle panel, bit it's a pattern part and for LHD pattern wipers, so would need modification to fit.

Cheers - think filler would be a lost cause on holes this size, though I'm hoping I can use some bits from the old car for repair..

Yeah. As above, the lower A-pillars seem fine, and to be fair to the car the rest of it is very good from a rot perspective - jacking points, sills, chassis rails are pretty much spotless. Encourages me to get this bit done tbh.

Yup.. so far the old man and I have a 0% success record when it comes to screen removal Doesn't matter though as the whole reason I found this was because the screen was damaged and needed replacing.

Thanks for the link - some good images in there for reference and it's always encouraging to see someone else sorting the same issues

Thanks dude - AFAIK there isn't any filler in the panel; I think the pin hole is probably the result of moisture creeping under the factory underseal and being retained there. Much as other stuff on the car has been bodged, I'm reasonably confident this is the first time the screen's been out (judging by the amount of flaky rust present and fact that it was the original screen); so it's just bad luck really

Thanks for the offer of a repair panel; may well be interested if I decide I have to replace the whole scuttle.

Exactly the approach I was considering - thanks for the guidance As you say, lots of careful and precise cuts.

Looks like you've managed a sterling job on your boot lid; thanks for the pics

Cheers.. suppose it's got to be crusty somewhere, and at least the rest of the car is solid. That's got to make it worth saving

tbh I'm itching to get stuck into sorting it; unfortunately it can't stay in the workshop indefinitely and I don't have the ability to undertake something so large atm. Would like to get it done before the end of summer if I can though; hate to think what a winter would do to what's left of the scuttle

As it stands I've brushed cavity wax into all the seams / grotty bits (used BH Dynax; much nicer to use than waxoyl and flows much better) and the new screen is going in this afternoon.

A few pics of the old shed as it was left last night:

 

lucky you have a shed to work in

why not see if someone off here can weld it for you , wings and dash off one friday night remove the old panel and you should be able to have the new one fitted and painted over the sat /sunday

isnt really much of a job , its the wings and dash that are the hassle..plus you will prob break the screen if you have to remove it again

 

This is very true.. despite it's sporadic availability.

Hoping that I might be able to do a decent job of localised repairs, since I really don't want to take the wings off if I can help it. I'm well aware that I won't get away without the dash coming out and the rubber rain gutters coming off, though.

Tbh I really just want to get stuck into the f*cking mess and get it sorted. My uncle's coming up in a bit to fit the screen; will see what his prognosis is regarding getting the screen out again in one piece.

If it doesn't look likely I'll try and get on with it (will have to live outside with a bag taped over it while the workshop is in use) however I'm at a bit of a loss as to gear to get it done.
I've been offered a family loan to get the bits I need (which I'm not keen on, but suppose it's better than spending money I don't have on paying someone else to do it). Really want to do it myself as I value the experience, and my dealings with bodyshops have been far from favourable in the past

 

Honestly, for the sake of it take the wings off. You certainly can't see the seam where it rusts in those pics, and there is usually sealant covering it. Both my shells with mint scuttles had very minor surface rust there. It is a comes join area with many overlaping seams and rust traps.

 

why fear taking the wings off?

surley its worth doing right ?

 

Take the wings off! You cannot see or have a good enough poke around at where the hinge bolts through. This is the rot spot. The wings come off with 8 or so 10mm bolts, dead easy and you can use the marks around the washer under the bolts to make sure you fit them back on perfect again so that they are not mis-aligned.

 

Thanks guys

Do I detect a subtle undercurrent of opinion that I should take the wings off?

Totally appreciate the argument for doing it properly (if I had the resources I'd strip it to a bare shell and rebuild it from the ground up). What worries me most is disturbing (and subisquently replacing) the factory rustproofing, which still seems sound. Did I hear epoxy mastic being banded about as a suitable alternative?

Assuming I do have the wings off, what's the best way to separate everything? I remember the underseal being really rather tenacious when I ripped the wings off the old car..

If I do remove the wings I figure I have two choices:

- Remove whole scuttle and replace with pattern part from BBT (realised that the only mod needed to fit the pre-87 scuttle is the drilling of the third wiper hole) .

- Remove whole scuttle, repair with bits from the old car and refit.

I quite fancy the latter approach at the moment since it still retains genuine panels, saves the cost of the replacement panel and hopefully should be more straightforward when it comes to refitting as I should have plenty of datums in sound areas on the panel.

Whats the best approach to rustproofing areas that are to be welded? Would really appreciate links to any guides people might have, since bodywork really isnt my forte..


Anyway, the screen got fitted without incident, and my uncle's fairly confident that he'll be able to get it out again without wrecking it. As predicted the car leaks like a swine, but there we go.. wasn't going to make more work for myself trying to bodge something temporary together.

I'm hoping that I can get the work done some time over the summer, although I'm not sure when..

In other news I found the cause of the fractured PAS pipe I had replaced recently; the pump bolts had worked loose (one had disappeared completely) causing a lot of movement. Tightened everything up now, but I'm angry at myself for missing it. On the up side I'm hoping that once I have access to TIG facilities I can repair the (nearly new) pipe I removed from the car.

The gearbox is still p*ssing fluid out of the P/side diff seal, and unsurprisingly continues to whine. Since I can't afford a rebuilt box at the moment I'm considering slapping in a cheap seal just to try and prolong it's life a bit more.

The joy of old cars

 

Shame about that rust. Were Mk2's not zinc (or similar) coated?

 

Cheers - think it's possibly the worst rot I've seen in this area on a mk2 Not sure when (or if) VW started galvanising stuff.. the mk2 certainly isn't though..


Bit the bullet and stuffed a TIG on my credit card.. now trying to drive the bloody thing

Some 0.8mm steel liberated from a knackered door from the old motor after not-a-lot of practice:



Small, tidy welds look entirely possible with some more practice; what's worrying me most at the moment is the potential for distortion..

Needless to say nowt will be done on the bodywork front until I feel capable of doing a decent job.


In the meantime I decided to replace the leaking diff seal on the passenger side, since the gearbag was losing increasing amounts of oil (no doubt the cause of the whining 5th).

This is just a stop gap until I can afford to get my other box rebuilt by Hotgolf, since this one is a bit ropey regardless.

Got the seal from GSF (about 8) and got busy with the aid of the old chap and Broke's excellent guide... would have been screwed without either

Driveshaft splines came out without any drama, hub nut needed the windy gun as the half inch breaker bar was flexing a worrying amount Bottom balljoint came out alright, and the driveshaft was free. After a bit of head scratching I found the easiest way to get the dust seal out of the centre of the gearbox flange was to punch a hole right in the middle and hook it out.

Blatantly copied Broke's "flange squasher" and managed to get the retaining circlip out with some screwdrivers and appropriate use of harsh language. Got the flange off with a puller and levered the old seal out. Cleaned it up a bit and was left with this:




Flange out and cleaned up; with belville washer to load the retaining circlip and the cup for the pretensioning spring:






New and old oil seal, dust seal and retaining circlip:




Packed the new seal with grease, and seated it by using a circular aluminium disc (part of a kit designed for the job) wound into the thread on the output shaft. Flange went back on, wound in using by flange squasher. Circlip was started on the output shaft by squashing it against the shaft's rad with an M10 bolt into the shaft and a load of washers, forcing it to ride up the rad and open out around the shaft. Finally it was seated in its groove with a screwdriver.

Everything else went back together as it had come apart, everything torqued and a load of fresh oil pumped in. Seems to whine a bit less now; at least I know everything's now properly lubricated. Will hopefully last until I can afford to get the other 'box sorted

Apologies for the lack of pics of this rivotting subject; was in a bit of a hurry and got sick of washing my hands every 5 minutes to avoid b*ggering up the camera..

 

Another scintillating update..

Was treated to the delightful aroma of burning brake material on a recent journey; with a subsiquent a feel of the wheels pointing to one of the rear brakes binding.

Managed to get in the workshop and pulled the calipers off, cleaned and greased everything and refitted. Hoping the problem was due to the pads binding on the corroded carriers since the pistons and handbrake cables / mechs seemed free.

Noticed that one handbrake rubber was knackered (and managed to kill the other) so now on the lookout for suitable replacements since VW don't sell them separately. Vauxhall units are looking the most promising atm...

Nothing external has changed but the weather was nice and I had the camera, so here's a shot of the old rotbox in the sun

 

Fair play on tackling the welding yourself Mike - no mean feat.

Out of interest, are you using a TIG welder instead of MIG to make a neater job? I've heard TIG is harder to do than MIG welding but I have to say I don't have a vast knowledge on the subject. Would like to learn to weld though.

Gleaming as ever on the outside!

 

Cheers dude - I'm yet to summon the balls and find the skill to get it done though

The idea of using TIG appeals to my hugely anal nature; once you've mastered it there's a lot more potential for control and the creation of smaller, neater welds.

That's the theory; I've had shamefully little practice and am yet to get to a standard I'm happy with.


Not a lot's gone on with the car recently; replaced the spark plugs which seems to have improved the economy a little.
I've felt little need to hoon the car around and am totally skint so have been trying to conserve fuel.. this coupled with the fact that I usually travel on A and B roads outside the rush hour when every other c*nt is at home means I've seen some good fuel consumption - MFA says 39.2mpg over the last 300 miles which was confirmed when I filled the car up last


Some weeks ago I found a red 5 door down the scrappy and set about chopping it up for the bits I'll need when I finally feel capable of tackling the corrosion round the screen.

It took me three afternoons of busyness with a spot weld drill, disc cutter and hacksaw but I got there in the end.. had pretty much demolished the donor by the end of it all, much to the amusement of the blokes down the yard

A-pillar after some love from the hacksaw - surprised how quickly I got through it tbh:




Scuttle area after the front section of the panel had been removed:








Chopped a bit out of the floor in the hope that I can use it to repair the retard damage on my car where chimps have been at the subframe bolts. I think you can have your kindly donated bit back now Trev




The scuttle panel; ironically with hardly any corrosion:






I also cut out the corresponding bits at the top of the bulkhead / upper A-pillars, although I don't have any pics. Liberated the tailgate too; it's straight with little corrosion (although I did notice some otherwise missed rust once I'd got it home ) however it's potentially much better than the one that's on there:




What was left of the car after I'd finished with it:




That is all

 

Nicely done, looks like you managed to remove it and keep it nice and straight!!