2-litre 20v engine conversions DIY - where are they?

This is starting to bug me.

In the '90s I remember there being a great fuss as to who could build the first 2-litre G60 engine, the holy grail as it were. Mark Harries & Sat Phagura being the two that did it 'first' in the UK. All sorts of fuss as to what was needed before anyone really understood that these engines just look like any other VW engine. Solve the crank (stroking issue) and the piston issue => done. Or bore it out like mad.

So a question: why is no one building DIY 2-litre ex-1.8T 20vs? And I don't mean 1900s, easily done with a 83mm bore.

I mean 92.8 x 82.5, nothing else.

Take a Passat/Audi A4-derived AEB old style block. Add an ABF forged 92.8mm crank, complete with timing disc, bore out by 1.5mm, and garnish with pistons to suit desired C/R. Done.

Or

Take an 06* internal water pump 1.8T, add a 2-litre crank (I understand) from a TFSI/FSI/prevailling name this week, bore out by 1.5mm, and garnish with pistons to suit desired C/R. Done.

Or

Same with either of the above except using Eurospec cranks.

http://eurospecsport.com/products/components/performance-crankshafts.htm


Why is the parts bin 2-litre 20v option not yet common as muck, 13 years after it was invented?


Bore & stroke reference list:

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228971

 

I'd hazard a guess that this conversion isn't common as it's much easier and cheaper to increase power output by remapping and turbo upgrades..

I think a 2.0 conversion would only be worthwhile if chucking large amounts of money at a balls out, big power lump..

 

im going for a diesel crank for increased stroke and then the integrated engineering rods + pistons for 2.1 all on an owens gt30, the reason why im going 21 is for a better spool time and driveability.

i think they are not that common because on a simple 1.9l 20v you can still get huge power so why go 2ltr or bigger all the way up to 2.2 if you really wanted!

 

Torque.

 

james slapbladder on here had a 2.0 20vt built by Matt Wright, with 2.0 crank, quite a common conversion it seems

 

Its expensive to do, and for most peoples purposes, a K04 conversion on a FWD 1.8T car is plenty to get you smiling.

plus it seems the attention turned to getting faster spooling turbos rather than the CC's needed to produce low down torque.

 

Complexity. Most people who do 1.8t conversions aren't doing full engine rebuilds. Why bother when you can buy an AGU/AUM/AUG/etc, bolt on a K03s/K04/Jabba Kit/whatever, and make 300bhp without evening opening the engine.

For the racing classes, I suspect this wouldn't be allowed, as there wasn't a 2.0 turbo engine until the FSI/TFSI came along, so there wouldn't be any point in developing one.

ETA: Possibly also lack of knowledge. Until this thread turned up, I didn't know it was possible and would probably have seriously considered it over the my 16v turbo.

 

the ones I know about are all big turbos 450bhp etc, so helps with drivability

 

As said,a bigger turbo bolted on or more boost etc produces more BHP than just a 2.0 conv.
The biggest reason (IMHO) is that the 3 Borg Warner turbos available (k03/s and 4) have so little lag,a cc increase is not on the agenda which would make the rev range even smaller (k03 runs out of puff at about 4800 rpm) so airflow plays a part.
For big turbo apps,yes it makes sense but again,rod's MUST be done 1st so then the cost goes up sharper than the power curve (valve's i hear people shouting)
1 thing i'm thinking of is a 2.0 TFSI bottom end but using the 20v head and management,this all depends on what the standard rods will take though.

 

yeah not for more bhp, but to get the thing spooled up earlier and to make more bhp off boost

 

@ sparrow: I agree with relative complexity to an otherwise unopened 1.8T.

@ Ianm: being 'expensive' ignores the context. We're talking 4 bespoke pistons, a crank from an ABF and a rebore. The important point is using an OEM crank saves ~ 1k.

Clearly this is not a thread for the peripheral chipping / bolt on tuner.

So far, we have one, possibly two folk using the OEM cranks in 2-litre 20vs:

1) slapbladder/James (Mk1 Cabrio) - ? bhp
2) Jordy (quarter mile Scirocco) - 500++ bhp?

Without digging out the Brunters feature, I'm assuming James' was done at the original build several years ago?

 

there was a vid of James's mk1 on here or the old forum when it went to 2l. if you can find that to date it?.


as for the need of 2l in the 20v.... a turbo upgrade and a tweak already puts these engines into the limits of the cars chassis and traction that they are retro fitted to?

 

I think they are done by a different generation of builders(here anyway)
Anyone Ive spoke to would not dare open a 1.8T because the software guy ''can save all that hassle'' with his laptop....

 

Sept 2004

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30666

James was the thread starter.

 

I am really struggling with the reasons for 'not' doing it.

Whatever happened to "I can, so I will, just watch me" with 20vs? That will be the essence of James'/Matt's work, I'm near sure of it!

I'm not for a moment suggesting that folk haven't developed the 20v, but this crank thing is a sitter.

 

I think it's the marginal gain for the extra effort, especially for driveway swaps.

1.8t - buy engine. Put in car.
2.0t - Buy Engine. Buy crank. Garnish with pistons to suit. Rebore. Rebuild. Etc, etc, etc.

Also, the pistons are custom, not off the shelf, so greater input required from someone who knows what they're doing so you don't end up with a 12:1 compression by mistake.

Even if you're building a 500bhp motor, proven off the shelf parts are a big factor. Even my 16vt was built with off the shelf parts, apart from the crank trigger sensor, which was why I ended up with the set up I did.

 

Except the massive increase in torque. Didn't VWD40 convert his 1.8T to 2 litre?

 

Pistons:

4 Cylinder 5V 220mm

Part Number	Bore	Stroke	Disp Rod	Length	Pin Dia	Comp Height	Comp Ratio	Type	Price
EFP 107 1984 5V 8.5	82.5	92.8	1984	144	20	29.36	8.5:1	Dished	795
EFP 107 1984 5V 9.0	82.5	92.8	1984	144	20	29.36	9.0:1	Dished	795
> 2 litre:
EFP 107 2008 5V 8.5	83	92.8	2008	144	20	29.36	8.5:1	Dished	795
EFP 107 2008 5V 9.0	83	92.8	2008	144	20	29.36	9.0:1	Dished	795
EFP 107 2008 5V 9.5	83	92.8	2008	144	20	29.36	9.5:1	Dished	795
EFP 107 2032 5V 8.5	83.5	92.8	2032	144	20	29.36	8.5:1	Dished	795

http://eurospecsport.com/products/components/performance-pistons-forged.html

 

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=178371

Options given to everybody to see, 2008cc for 999+ shipping

People going for big power should probably consider it being that pistons and rods will come to near that on there own. But you add machining costs etc.

300hp can be seen on a stock internal'd engine with a hybrid turbo for a similar cost. I think cost outweighs spool and low end torque advantages for 90% of the people building 1.8t cars.

 

i know its abit of topic ish , but looking at jnl racing have thier 20v which is still 1.8L

And then awsome GTI's is a 1.9L , both making massive bhp , surly say JNL would of gone down the 2L route , but made what 750bhp ... ?!


JNL ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4x4YIoZS1A

Awsome , 2nd car down ... http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/page.p...4604c53a35557f3d533e88&xPage=projectcars.html




Jo