I'm currently at a mental stalemate as to what to do with my Mk2 8v GTI, my somewhat loose requirements are: 200bhp/ton Characterful/interesting/fun Budget of 1500-2000 and i'll be doing all work with exception of mapping (if required) myself, so although i'm happy swapping engines & wiring looms about i'd like to steer clear of any full-on fabrication work as i just don't have the time. Car will be a 2nd/3rd vehicle and doesn't need to be civilised, will be used for general hairing about down b-roads and hopefully a few track days once i take my brave pills. Suspension & brake upgrades are obviously already on the cards. My current thoughts are: 20vt with K03s at around 220-230bhp, with some nice comfy OEM recaro's and full interior etc. High compression 16v, most likely a 2.0 with some fruity cams to make a good genuine 180/185bhp coupled with some serious weight-loss, plexi windows & lightweight buckets etc. VR6, relatively standard form just with 6-branch, intake & exhaust coupled with some weight loss. I'm a fan of this option mainly on noise & the experience of driving it, not sure if it's a great option when really pushing on? Do they get a bit breathless when really leant on? G60 is a bit of a wildcard, don't know much about them but i imagine 190ish bhp is possible reliably on a pretty stock setup coupled with some weight loss? So i'd like to hear peoples opinions, particularly if they've owned more than one of the above. I want something with a decent turn of speed but nothing too crazy, but it does need to be fun and interesting rather than just fast, i'm not sure a 20vt would meet this requirement but my only experience of them is in Mk4 platform vehicles which left me underwhelmed (Mk4 GTI, Octavia VRS & S3) to be honest. What do people think? And also if anyone has one of the above in the Surrey/Hampshire area and would be interested in letting me have a look around and a passenger ride i'll happily cough up some beer (not literally!) or some petrol money if required. Thanks, James
The only way to do this properly within your budget is with an 1.8t 20v conversion, even then I think you might need to add at least another grand to your budget. I'm lucky enough to own both 20vt and a genuine 200bhp ABF in Mk2s... it'll cost all of you most of your budget to build a hi-comp valver with 180BHP. Nice 20vt with a K03s would be great.
Using the weights thread here, I think you're looking at roughly a 900 - 950kg car, which means you're asking for 180-190bhp - before you add your own mass to the car. With an ABF on an ECU, you will be at the lower end and only just if at all. Then it's cams or TBs - the costs are edging up, but how far? It depends on your taste for n/a vs turbo also
@ 1.gayt Personally I hate the 1.8t lump, lots of midrange torque makes you smile but it quickly turns in a frown once 5.5k comes and boost drops off and this was on a well tuned stage 2 lump. As your a honda lover who owns/owned a tuned EP3 iirc I would go for a ABF/ACE with a well ported head and maybe some kent cams, short ratio box with lsd made my car but it currently has a mk3 standard diesel box in it and its still a huge laugh, infact for B road blasting its better as I mostly leave it in 3rd and lfb. I play with/ drive a well set up tuned EP3 alot and its nicer to drive than the mk2 but the golf has so much smile factor and a gives much more confidence turning in due to the lightweightness (real word) If Im wrong about you owning a civic then the above is pretty pointless to read sorry.
Currently i'm very much pro-N/A having had 3 cars on the trot with revvy 2.0 16v's (Mk2 2.0 16v, Mr2 & currently a tweaked Civic Type R) but i'm wondering if i'm missing out on something, part of me wants the mid-range punch that boost or extra cylinders would bring. I can't imagine a 20vt done DIY would set me back more than 2 grand given the current prices of them, plenty available for 600/700 with a K03s but would it only be fun because it was quick? 16v-wise it appears cams can be had for 300-350 (Autotech for example), Wossner pistons for around 500 plus a full set of bearings & gaskets/bolts so should be just within budget but maybe down on the required power? Probably more like 180 i imagine?
if you are used to vtec type r power, turbos will not give the same, nothing in my opinion will. i have not however driven a turbo type r..........................
Imagine it. All the extras needed will add up however unimaginatve you are. Especially if you want it of a decent quality.
If you want that power:weight ratio in a Mk2, you need a slipper diff to use the power on track. Bang - that's at least a grand gone, or 5-600 if you find a 2nd hand LSD box, hopefully with a shorter diff in it. I'd rather have NA than turbo power in a track car, but I guess I'm just old fashioned that way! Strip out a Mk2, stick in an ABF, SEM or remapped std mgmt. You can't afford to have the head professionally ported or buy new cams and still be in budget. Add in some 2nd hand suspension, poly bushes and G60 brakes. Not including your weight (and I've no idea how much that is!) you'll get around 180 bhp/ton from that sort of spec) Is your Mk2 totally stock just now, or already modded in some areas? Don't look at this as a one off conversion. Start with the bits you can afford just now, then add more as and when you can afford it. That way you get to enjoy the car along the way. Pair of 2nd hand cams - 200-300, or a bit more if they're Schricks. Decent sports exhaust - 100-150 2nd hand for a Jetex or other quality brand 2nd Hand Bucket seats and harnesses - 150 ish. A roll cage is a good idea if you want to get serious about track days. Buy a spare set of lightweight rims and track tyres when they come up 2nd hand - that'll make more difference to the car than a pair of cams. I wouldn't get hung up on power figures... just keep an eye on the classifieds and take the opportunities as they come up. Of course, there is another way.... buy a car that's closer to what you want and sell yours. Guessing that yours might be worth a grand, then 3k could buy you a decent enough track car to start with.
All the combo's would be very nice in their own ways tbh. Least fav is the G60 for me though,purely from a blower issue about cost and boring delivery. 2.0 16v is nice,vr6 is nice with a sound track thats wonderfull & loves to be thrashed.1.8t is mega in a mk2 and will kick the rest into touch performance wise,nothing like it is in a mk4 chassis car (hard to believe its the same engine) I'd start with one of these; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2001-Seat...5512792?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3cbd646bd8 But for a grand or less,break it for parts & you might get a free engine. you'll need an exhaust down pipe,rad,02A gearbox,I/C,hoses,remap and more smaller bits & bobs but its do-able.
Or just buy this: http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=248265 250-750 under budget, and a decent start point, far further down the road than the car you've got. I keep looking at it, but I just don't need more cars. Someone in Club GTI should get it bought, now!
from my point of view, g60's are all abit long in the tooth now and require a fair bit of maintenaince, plus im led to believe the blowers arent to reliable on track, 1.8t mk2's with 210ish bhp are quick dont get me wrong, (and can easily be upgraded) but there just not good track engines, in my opinion. dont have enough "character" 16v needs a fair old amount of work to get you to the power figures your aiming for. so for me it would be a vr6. You can pick up donors so cheap now its unreal.500 quid or less? throw in some 2nd hand cams, lightened flywheel, and a remap and the motor is transformed into a much different engine. 500 quid ish again. leaving you a grand ish from your budget for a shorter final drive, and a lsd. with a little work they can be made to handle "very" well, so dont believe all you read about being nose heavy and understeering. ps: i may be a little biased owning a mk2 vr6 and 24v v6 mk2! edit: Just seen this! Alot of car for not alot of money.......
im going to be running a abf on twin 40's with a lightened flywheel that should be close to the 200bhp mark and if not i will change the cams
VR6 with proper gear ratios and hot cams would be awesome. More money needs to be chucked at handling, I believe better ARB and Corrado VR6 suspension upgrades are what's needed iirc. My heart would say a screaming valver though. The grin it would put on your face is probably unrivalled. I've never been able to enjoy a 1.8T in the same way.
If the only mods are twin 40 carbs and a lightened flywheel, then it won't make 200bhp otherwise we would all be doing it!
Is this budget including everything like suspension etc? Or just the engine upgrade? I could blow your whole budget on nothing other than suspension, wheels, tyres and brakes along with a refresh of all the bushings & mountings. Gurds
i would be different, A serious Xflow 8v and some serious stripping! but as it seems its not an option the 20v is probably the better option, keep the engine almost standard a decent remap, plus it wont be like being in a biscuit tin, stripped cars can be annoying!
