Dunno what you mean by better but a good ABF 2L has more power and torque than a 1.8 20v. Probably similar figures for a whole 9a.
As standard engines in their original factory fitment then yes I agree. Put them both on carbs in a MK2/MK1, then you are comparing like with like. Not yet to have first hand knowledge of this yet, but will before the year is out - awaiting a set of 45's then my 20v will be ready to fire up
Indeed, and that was how I intended my remark. 2.0 20v for me, I don't know still weighing up the costs tbh.
In theory the greater valve area of the 20v should allow it to flow more than the 16v head and hence give more power top end.. According to this though, you might as well stick to the 16v.. (Bottom of the page) Rest of the site makes very interesting reading as well
That is only theoretical though, it doesn't mention spread of power/torque etc and/or useable power and/or costs to achieve stated max power. Max power output is one thing but a useable engine might require a whole different mindset.
LOL - so how many 220 hp NA VAG engines are there in the UK ? cracks me up how power figures are banded around and talked about like its a walk in the park to achieve - 220hp = 110hp / liter, this is a massive amount from an atmo engine Rob
Not taken as Gospel, just acknowledged. A lot of what the dude says on the site makes sense, so I tend to credit the stuff he says that goes beyond what I already know.. I can kind of see where he's coming from with the lifter diameter.. how many big power N/A 20Vs are there? Havn't seen many.. 20VTs are a different matter - but they'll have a milder cam profile as they run forced induction.. So what's the beef with the bloke? Does he know what he's talking about, or is he just pretending? Providing there arn't any nasties regarding lary cams etc, I'd imagine the 20v would offer a bit more midrange torque than the 16v due to the better flow and VE characteristic of the extra valve area, and ultimately give higher peak power.
ask mad20v - if it meant i could still drive the car i'd give any part of my anatomy to own that one ... !
Agreed!! Although, every time someone brings this up, it really makes me respect the engineers at Honda 118.1 : litre and makes my engine look sh1t
I also think a lot of what he says makes a lot of sense but this again is one man's opinion. The 20V may be the best engine for ultimate performance due to the higher flow potential but its also known to be a fragile engine - so when you want very big power it cannot take the pace. NA 16V's have been developed to 260hp and 16V turbo's well into the 550+ zone - not at all shabby and pretty good if they stay together. Now, if you could get 280hp and 600hp respectively from a 20V, but that it could drop a valve at any time, which would you go for ? Trouble is right now is that not many people have done much at the grass roots level with the 20V - Mad20V's car is a major exception and a cracking piece of work - time will tell what the 20V does with reasonable mod levels - chrisp get on with it ! By the way - regarding Puma race engines - respect to the guy as he knows some stuff and makes some sense and has some very good results to his credit - but I dont like the attitiude to customers on his website and believe me, his customer service aint so great Cheers Rob
Just very funny reading Puma cropping up all over the shop and taken as THE definative word on everything. Does anyone actually know anyone who runs a Puma engine? (just asking.. not flaming..) How well does it go? Talks a good tuner.. but as a friend of mine found out talk was easy, actions were less forthcoming.
High power will come from high revs.. 20v motors seem to have fragile valve gear and can drop valves. Been there myself as has poor Graham. Life valve springs.. Planned rebuilds.. all these come hand in hand on motors which are as high a spec as Graham's... and dont even ask about how much it costs. 20v motors are'nt ten a penny so real tuning parts for n/a are going to be either minimally available and expensive when available. Flow abilty exceeds 16v from a largeport 20v.. but you will need to be pumping the motor rapidly (read high revs) to make the most of this airflow potential Maybe Honda V-Tech valve gear in a 20v motor..? Now there's a thought.. V-tech, 20v valve valve design.. Hmmmm
There arn't enough hours in the day............... And you cannot trust tuners to do it eh ? Cheers Rob
RobT 220bhp is based on the VW motorsport catalogue using mostly ADR bits, so wind your neck in I know you know a lot more than me about 16v tuning, but it is down there in black and white, with the cam dimensions etc, so definitely do-able Edited by: prof
