Can anyone post a photo of a standard un-machined flywheel please. Big photo of the centre showing bolting face and slope down into it. Like pic no. 2. Have they machined material from the bolting face? How thick is the bolting flange, compared with original?
off the top of my head, bolting flange was 10mm thin. i had to source the bolts myself, as they didn't even come with the kit. i'm assuming the engine power and driving style will have something to do with these letting go?
Possibly. But, basically the same bolt pattern on all Audis, including 20V Qs. Mine's 170 bhp + 220Nm torque. Drop the clutch at high revs and the quattro system just digs in and goes. Never heard of Audis breaking flywheels. They may be steel though? Would have expected the clutch driven plate or gearbox to go before the flywheel.
i could understand upwards of say 300hp and masses of torque, but this did 1 race, 1 15 minute power test on the rollers, and running in the garage, hardly big usage. Had Eurospec reply again asking what my solid, billet, damper is. will keep you posted to their replies.
IIRC, the vibration damper came off the first time? Or, did it break up? Check this thread for 90 20v vibration damper torque. 350Nm! http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211337
for the 1st time it's hard to say, was it the flywheel affecting the pulley end or other way around, but when it came in from qualifying and we looked, the crank pulley was there but in it's sorry state, but it had also bent the cam belt tensioner, these where replaced only to find when we fired it up the the car was shaking itself to death.... we called it a day (or night as it was by now) and went home, only to find the flywheel problem. I now see Jabba have stopped using Eurospec flywheels and now do their own 1 piece billet job, made in the good old UK Pricey though
i think i would be asking eurospec to pay for both engines to be repaired or replaced you mite want to send them a link to this and the thread i posted above
Having had a few e-mails to and throw from Eurospec, they have said they will replace the flywheel with an upgrade and supply me with the harmonic damper set up free of charge. As much as i wanted to go away from them, i will take the items, i did actually think they would try to swerve it, but this is what they said: We assumed that it was the pulley you were using from the beginning. The toll that these things are taking on engines and drive trains is just being realized here. We have had this happen to two other flywheels out of over 2000 and in both cases they had taken the harmonic balancer off of the car and installed one of those aluminum pulleys. The pulleys are obviously much lighter than a balancer and in some instances even have a smaller diameter which allows them to spool up quicker. However they provide no harmonic, vibration or pulse canceling qualities. They also actually will reduce the power and efficencies of an engine rather than improving them. We have heard from customers that these pulleys can be used on very short stroke engines 1.6 or less. But even there the engines are not happy and other situations arise. end So at least they have tried, just have to wait for it to arrive from USA, good job i'm not racing on Monday!!!
You really need to check the end of the crankshaft for any damage as it will be marked if the bolts have been slack for any length of time. As mentioned previously I would lap the new flywheel to the crank with grinding paste to ensure both surfaces mate correctly. Just put a little valve grinding paste on the two surfaces then turn the flywheel back and forth (without the bolts fitted) for a while then repeat the process a second time, and finish by cleaning off all traces of the grinding paste including a cotton bud in the crankshaft bolt holes to clean the threads of any paste too. Consider ARP bolts and the Rosten Performance diamond impregnated friction disc too. I would really only consider fitting a steel flywheel and not a cast one after the problems you have encountered. Good luck
good info Danster, the bolts and disc are already ordered from your previous info, so thanks for that, luckily there is no damage to the end of the crank as these bolts where still tight, as i said i think i caught this in time, i.e the crack was only just starting it's journey so luckily no movement, unlike the old one. I think i would still prefer to get a billet flywheel anyway. Will definately do the paste trick though Top marks to all for the feedback, keep you posted, and tomorrow i will throw a couple of pics up, cheers guys
I hope it all goes well when back together. It is a problem that anyone would want to avoid due to the potential damage if failure were to occur. I suppose you should be chuffed it never let go like the lad on the vortex thread as that trashed the block and box. Being a left hand drive car too, it was lucky it never took his nuts off. Bits of flywheel can go through the bulkhead with the forces involved.
ouch. best of luck with the new stuff. are eurospec saying they've only had a handful of complaints? i got the impression many more people had had problems..
Good result! Next job, over to the Loctite thread to decide which one to use for the ARP bolts (they don't come pre-coated). Hopefully daved can advise.
advise on that wouldnt go a miss . OK then lets go watch the big boys play in the rain, or at least a good fight from the back,
Sorry danster, bit of a liberty with your quote. I have looked at these before, and thought that they looked absolutely beautiful, phisically. And the spec looks good too! For some reason, I can't find these on the ARP web site, or in the catalogue I downloaded? Shame they don't quote the exact grade of steel, but the words "High Strength Alloy Steel" give me enough confidence, that I shall fit them to the 90 20v when I get around to the engine. (Still doing the body lightening bit, and working out how to fit an Audi 100 rad in the boot, and how to move the fuel tank back) Anyway. They recon Loctite, and use the word, 'lube'. Use Blue. You can use Red, but you would need to heat up the assembly to about 300 degC to have any chace of removing the bolts again. Get all of that shiney oil off first. You will have already cleaned out all of the grinding paste from the threads in the crank. Under the head is a good idea. I always lube under heads with Rocal ASP, solid MoS2, whenever I assemble torqued up parts. It lowers the friction under head, so that the torque is transmitted down the shank of the bolt. Now the question is how to tighten, and whether to use a shim ring? Rosen quote a torque of 115Nm. The VWMS Mk3 Kit Car use: Bolts 1H1 105 302 SP (M10 x 1 x 19.5) with no shim ring. No torque figures are given. The Mk2 16v Grp A calls for: 2.5mm Shim Ring. Between bolt heads and flywheel face. Blue Loctite 100Nm + 90deg Drop of oil under the head. No bolt spec is quoted. These bolts are so short as to be set screws. Not much stretch in them. I recon 100Nm + 90deg isn't going to give a much higher pre-load than 115Nm. I'd go for the VWMS figure. As to the shim ring. Not sure. 2.5mm is quite thick. An extra element in there might not help? Without the shim ring, will the bolts bottom out? I'd certainly screw all of the bolts, dry, into the crank first, to make sure that they don't bottom out on assembly.
