Early Golf Mk2 GTI Instrument Cluster - Help Please

Discussion in 'Electrical' started by Somerset Red, May 18, 2020.

  1. Somerset Red New Member

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    Hi there
    I am new to the forum and have been looking through many posts regarding issues with instrument clusters, but none I have found completely answers my query.
    I have to be honest, electrics is my week area and short of replacing every part and trying again, I'm pretty rubbish at identifying the fault.

    Long story short:-
    I have issues with my milometer not counting the miles, so I replaced the entire Speedometer with what I thought was a direct replacement. Turns out it wasn't and whilst the milometer now worked the rest of the instruments, suddenly stopped working!
    So I quickly swapped the speedometer back and prayed I hadn't damaged anything. Unfortunately, it looks like I have. Still nothing works.

    When I say nothing, I mean, ignition,oil and indicator LEDs, Temperature Gauge, Petrol Gauge and Rev Counter. The only thing that does work is the MFA Digital Clock.

    So I'm guessing that there must have been an electrical short or power surge or something?
    I have checked all the fuses and all the wiring from a visible perspective and replaced the little voltage stabiliser on the back of the instrument cluster, but no joy.

    Reading some other information, I am wondering whether the blue flexible circuit board (Foil) may have been cooked rather than the individual components? I have located a replacement (Foil) but it is €100+, so before I start spending unnecessary money, I was hoping someone with infinitely more knowledge than me, could advise as to the best course of action to tackle this problem.

    Thanks in advance guys
     
  2. Tristan Forum Junkie

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    Tbh, I don't know how swapping clocksCE1.html

    ause harm? Maybe you shorted one of the copper tracks on the rear of the clock while removing? Or else possibly tugged a wire out of its correct home.
    If the foil is damaged enough to stop everything working, the burn mark should be visible on it.

    By early, I presume you mean CE1, Hazard light switch on the dash, near the fog light switch?

    http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE1.html
    Wiring diagram there for the fusebox, to ensure power is heading up to the dash
     
  3. Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    connectors on upside down? they only have tracks one side..
    Jon
     
  4. Somerset Red New Member

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    Hi Guys
    Thanks for the replies. To be more specific my car is a 1984 GTi, Single headlight Grill, P-Slots, Single exhaust pipe etc

    So it has the rev counter with the Fuel Gauge & Temp Gauge at the bottom either side and the gear change light in the centre above digital clock etc.
    Ill take a look at the wiring diagram, thanks, but as I said, I'm no electrics expert.
    The 2 main loom connectors are definitely on the right way round as the groove is shaped for it to only fit one way.

    I did have a look at the fuses and relays diagrams for the CE1 before and they didn't seem to tie up with mine.
    As my car is so early, is there a chance it could have a Mk1 fuse box & relay configuration?

    Also, thinking back to when I changed the speedometers, I did get a slight shock off the pins in the flexi foil circuit board, at the place where the connectors push into the pins at the top on the back of the Speedometer its self. Could this have shorted the Foil circuit board? Is there a chance it could have destroyed all the gauges? or is it more likely that the flexi foil circuit board is toast?
    I look forward to your guidance.
    Cheers Paul
     
  5. Tristan Forum Junkie

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    That's an early one! They were really showing the crossover from mk1. Has the clocks got a reset button on a stalk protruding through the face?
     
  6. Tristan Forum Junkie

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    You shouldn't get a shock from 12v...
     
  7. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    fuse 3 is the main live fuse for cluster, check that is good and also if you pull it for 30 seconds this will reset the MFA computer. look for the main cluster earth near the fusebox with brown and brown/white in it from clocks and MFA stalk. there should be a spade connector fitted into it which then runs off to the side of the head in the engine loom, check the ring terminal wire crimp is good and the connection itself to the head is clean also. check all the pins inside the dash cluster plugs are ok, they can squish down with age making poor contact.

    if the clocks plugged in, they are electrically compatible. if there are no signs of damage on either cluster set its unlikely they will have caused any wiring issues on the car side. My fusebox FAQ has a pinout for the ce1 clusters as well as the fusebox itself, main ones you're looking at is the red live, brown earth and black ignition live:
    https://clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/fusebox-faq.219775/

    with speedometer you can easily swap units between clusters if the original set comes back to life, the original speedometer can probably be fixed too:
    https://www.4130-products.com/step/odometer/index.htm
     
  8. Somerset Red New Member

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    Thanks again guys, I will look into all the thing suggested.

    Sorry to ask the same question again, but failing that, could the Foil flexi circuit board be the problem?
    Could one of the small components on the foil it have blown?

    Thanks
     
  9. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    its possible, the bits on the back are resistors and diodes pretty sturdy stuff if they had popped usually will see some evidence of burning. plus usually if it was down to some kind of short or whatever the blue foil would melt before those do as its only paper thin coper
     
  10. Somerset Red New Member

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    Hi Guys

    So have visually inspected all the wiring and fuses at the front and back of the fuse box, I've also checked the wiring behind the dash etc and can see nothing untoward. All looks normal. There is also no evidence of singeing or burning on the blue foil nor any exploded resistors etc.

    It feels to me like the instrument cluster has packed up rather than anything in the rest of the car.

    As I said before I am rubbish with electrics. Is there some way of easily checking each of the pins in the dash cluster plugs to ensure power is getting to the instrument cluster?

    If this the plugs are all OK, it will identify that the cluster is the problem? If that is the case, is there a way of checking the functionality of each of the gauges?
    If I strip down the instrument cluster and check them individually?

    Thanks
     
  11. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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  12. Somerset Red New Member

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    Hi thanks again.
    I'm really sorry to be asking stupid questions, I really appreciate your help.
    So I'm sat in the car looking at the black push in multiplug that goes into the back of the instrument cluster below the Speedo and the white multiplug that sits below the rev counter.
    There is a black wire that goes into the black plug and a brown wire that goes into the white plug
    Are you saying measure the voltage between these 2? They are not on the same connector. It would be much easier if I could add photos to this message!!
    Thanks again
     
  13. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    yep thats it, black should be ignition live and brown is earth
     
  14. Somerset Red New Member

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    Hello
    Well, I've had my first success! I have measured 12.3v over the Brown and black wires!
    So does this mean it's definitely the cluster as power is getting to it?
    What's my next move? Is there way of pinning down which part of the cluster has had it easily?
    Thanks again for your patience.
    Cheers Paul
     
  15. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    ok good so you have power to the cluste rplugs, next have a look at the pin inside make sure its not too squished. on the cluster side look at the copper pad it contacts make sure its not worn off :)
     
  16. Somerset Red New Member

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    Pin inside?
    Do you mean the silver connections inside the black and white cluster plugs? And also check the copper connections in blue foil in the black and White connectors on the cluster itself?
    Essentially check male and female connectors ?
    Thanks again
     
  17. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    yeah the metal contacts inside the plugs, if you look they have a springy part which can get squished causing loose connection, and the copper pads can wear
     
  18. NateS2

    NateS2 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Hi, I'm the guy that wrote the thread that rubjohnny linked. I've not got any early clocks to reference but it does seems like there is maybe a grounding or connection issue as John mentioned. I think there should be a Ground (brown wire) on both plugs, so both of those need to be good. Also, does your MFA work or is it just the clock?
     
  19. Somerset Red New Member

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    Hi Gents
    Thanks again. So I have checked male and female connectors and all looks fine.

    In answer to your question Nate, no the MFA doesn't work now.
    Only the clock and headlight blue bulb works.
    Everything else doesn't.
    No red oil or ignition bulbs, green indicator blub, no rev counter, temp gauge or petrol gauge.

    What should I try next?
    Thanks
    Paul
     
  20. NateS2

    NateS2 Paid Member Paid Member

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    That is very odd, normally things likes the indicator and battery light will keep working when nothing else does as they have their own circuits, they only share the ground.

    If everything on the car side checks out okay then would you be able to post a couple of pictures of the instruments? I would be inclined to think that the foil has been damaged somehow, or, more unlikely, the instruments have failed internally and are causing a short.
     

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