what's your point TSC? what evidence do you have to show that all the engines you have flushed wouldn't have lasted another 50K at the end of their lives, if you had NOT flushed them? M.
That's an even more pointless statement. What evidence do you have that next week gravity will still be doing it's thing? None, but you can be pretty certain it will based on past experience.
My point is - it's a good idea to keep the lubrication system in your car as clean as possible. Flushing the sytem cleans it. Is that simple enough for you to understand?
I'm with TSC on this. Hole in one needs to go back to school! (or is thot skool??) And if you engine has enough shit lodged in it to cause a problem if it came loose THEN YOUR ENGINE IS FUCKED!!!!!
the order of this thread is mixed up, i should have quoted tsc, rather than assuming my post was right behind his! M.
so now i'll explain differently: only prob' is i'll introduce some math into the equation (no pun intended) as well. if you put atf in your oil it does some things which mean it's bad to run the engine above tickover speed. Then when you change the oil all is OK, BUT there's a pint of the (old oil+atf) still in there. That's 1/7th the whole volume, or about 14% because a mk2 holds 7 pints of oil (when changing the filter). So with: 1) 100% (old oil+atf)->tickover only!!! 2) 14% (old oil+atf) + 86% new oil->????????????? 3) 14% (old oil)+ 86% new oil -> OK (as we all know!) The combination 2. cannot be as good as 3. but what's the difference? TSC say's it's OK, i'd say it's probably worth the risk if the engine sludged. But what about the guy who started this post with a "normal", (like most of us) engine? There has to be some degradation in oil lubrication performance! Make your own mind up, i'll refrain, until i hear something scientific (unlikely to come from this forum!) to suggest combination 2. has no difference to 3. over the life of the engine. Mark Edited by: mark25
But surely if you run your engine after youve took the sump off, surely all the oil will run out of the engine dead quick. then your pint will be gone
I don't know what way you're changing your oil, but you shouldn't have anywhere near a pint left in there if you do it properly. ATF does no harm whatsoever at speeds above tickover - it is a lubricating oil of the same sort of properties as a typical engine oil, with added detergents along with the usual seal improvers, anti-foaming agents and all the rest. I run my car as normal on ATF + cheap oil for a week, two weeks, or more with no concerns whatsoever about doing so. If you want to get technical about it then I'm more than happy to do so - as a mechanical engineer I've done rather a lot of work on tribology and lubrication engineering, which from your posts I suspect you haven't.
never bothered with engine flushes. oil and filter change every 3k, cant go wrong. (sounds allot, but its only 4 times a year)
too true! OK TSC you've won me over at last! ATF prob' has no detrimental effect on the engine in the long term. one thing thou, why don't you just add the atf to the old oil? M.
Because the old oil is already dirty, so the detergents in the ATF will be (at least partially) used up on the old oil, before they get a chance to work on the heavier deposits. A bit like washing the glasses first, when you're doing the dishes - if you do the frying pans first the glasses end up greasy.....
Audi/Vw do not reccomend any kind of engine flushing/ fuel additives etc in their engines but then they wouldn't do. Flushing the engine of a car with a high mileage engine where there is little history of previous oil changes is a bad idea. As already mentioned, engine work at extreme temperature and speeds, alot of carbon deposits build up causing them to lodge in certain mechanical components. Flushing the engine will dislodge these deposits and can cause more good than bad. I have seen many example's of this, the most common is that the flush dislodges deposits on a worn oil pump between the teeth of the gears, this in turn leads to oil starvation and lack of pressure to the head and this leads to a f**ked engine. If you know your cars service history is good then a flush should be ok. I personally see very little point and benefit. So many people write on here there engine oil isn't golden or clean! How is it going to be? An engine is a naturally dirty thing. Imagine tipping clean water into a glass with mud at the bottom, will the water still be clean? No.
As has been said previously, if your engine has carbon deposits in it to the extent that if they worked loose they would cause oil starvation, then the engine is near death anyway. I'd rather have the deposits come loose during a flush than at 120mph blast on the motorway. Every oil contains a certain amount of detergents and could at some time loosen the deposits. Not to mention the fact that carbon deposits naturally attract more carbon deposits. That's why I flush on any engine, regardless of mileage or service history. Engines are designed to be clean inside, and to be run on clean oil. If you put clean oil in a dirty engine it's much the same as you said - like pouring clean water into a glass with mud in the bottom. So why not pour the water into a clean glass.
[handbags at 20 paces ladies] please end this thread as there is no more useful info coming out of it
Everybodies opinion is useful...... in fact I think this should be moved to the FAQ - it's a commonly asked question, and this thread gives both sides of the argument.
I think there are still lots of good facts coming from this thread -- some people don't seem to like it if their opinion isn't agreed with or is scientifically unture. I didn't know that carbon deposits attract more carbon deposits... and from whats said i will still flush my engine on EVERY oil change.
I'm loving this thread. I got the answer to my question and a whole load more info too. Thats gotta be a good thing and totally with the spirit of a forum. Edited by: harry_the_cake
