Had a crash yesterday...who's liable?! (photos on page 2)

YES ANOTHER....!!! I was ironically on my way down to the accident repair center to get a quote for some damage that occured the day before that the mrs did when she reversed into a concrete post...suddenly i feel stupid for giveing her a bit of a hard time about that

Was travelling along a duel carrigeway towards a roundabout, I was in the outside lane (of 2!) and stopped for a car to come round from my right, as I got on to the two lane roundabout into the right hand lane the car that had just come from my right (Audi a3 with two blondes ) started coming across to my lane...I was by then picking up speed to re join the duel carrigeway on the otherside of the roundabout and had to move over onto the hashes around the center of the roundabout to avoid the Audi...I was assuming they would be using the left hand lane...rightly or wrongly. Anyway As i was just about to exit the roundabout a ford focus that was in front of the audi in the left lane went right infront of me from the left lane to the right and tried to take the third exit, i hit the brakes but the inevitable happened and my car hit the rear corner of his car.

We pulled over and had a chat about it, very pleasent chap...he didn't know the area but was quite content that he had not done anything wrong....I explained my point of view and explained where we were etc for insurance purposes...swapped details etc and assessed the damage. Then with that a renault pulled up and went straight over to the bloke I hit to offer his services as a witness to say it was my fault as I was driving too fast and that I had nearly hit another car on the roundabout (assuming he was talking about the Audi)

RED MIST from me and I had completley lost the plot...giving the stumpy witness bloke and his mrs a barrage of why I thought it wasn't my fault chucked in with a few obsenities....he got back in his car and drove off after swapping details.

I calmed down again and chatted to the focus driver again and we were on our way.

Here is a dodgy diagram of the accident...im the blue blobs in the leon he's the green in the focus and the black not that it really comes into it imo is the Audi



After speaking to the insurance company they seem to think that it will come down to knock for knock as I should have made sure my exit was clear and that he should have made sure he was in the correct lane. Apparently when roundabouts are involved its allways difficult to get full liability.

Here is the damage (that you can see) not as bad as it felt...







more photos of our smashed up leon on my photo bucket account!

 

Mate, I think you hold a crash record on here ! Glad it wasnt the Mk1, hope you get everything sorted swiftly.

 

sorry, but i couldnt make total sense of what you wrote there, but i got the impression that the focus was attempting to take the 3rd exit using the left hand lane?

do you know where he joined? how do you know? where did he exit?

 

he was already on the roundabout and had come from the same direction as me as he told me but yes...he was trying to and succeeded to exit on the third exit...I tried to take the second but went into the back of him!

As for the crash record.... Cheers Vick!

 

ahh gutted mate, know the feeling... I was in situation where van was forced to do emergency stop and I went into the back of him. Accident all around I accept, but simple fact is if you hit someone then liability falls on your shoulders. I'm unsure how the roundabout senario affects it all, but it doesn't look too good in your case, soz.

 

He should have been in the right hand lane to take the 3rd exit, so technically he was at fault, although some may say you should have been in the left hand lane to go straight across, but in my opinion if there is a dual carriage way either side of a roundabout you can stay in the 2nd lane.

However, if there is a witness which is taking his side, then you're screwed I'm affraid. When I put in a claim for being hit in the rear while giving way at a roundabout, I was told that unless I had a witness to back me up (even though it is blatantly obvious it was the other persons fault) the best they could do was settle 50/50.

Was he indicating to turn right around the roundabout? I'm guessing he didn't if he wasn't familiar with the area. I always have this trouble during the summer with tourists coming down to Cornwall and so fixated with trying to work out where they are going they are oblivious to other people on the road.

 

well i'd put the blame on the focus driver for trying to go the long way round the roundabout,

something i have to deal with on a daily basis at one roundabout on my journey to and from work, i'm surprised i've not done the same as you mike, the amount of folk inthe wrong lane to neogiate the roundabout is scary!

 

Which one, you or the Focus, was on the roundabout first?

 

the focus

 

You're at fault then. The car established first on the roundabout, has priority. Also it doesn't help that you crossed the lane (from the inner to outer, to leave the roundabout) where he stuck in his lane.

But, as someone else said, the insurance would find it tough knowing who was established first, so they often settle knock-for-knock. Its not like there is an injury claim too? And neither car is written off?

 

I couldn't make complete sense of your description but from the diagarm both the Audi and Focus were in the wrong lane.

Did you mean you had to accelerate hard to get out of the way of the Audi, which meant you hit the Ficus who was in the wrong lane?

Have a read of the highway code mate. You need to fully understand it so you can put an arguement together.

 

me neither lol

but if the focus was using the left lane to take 3 exits then he was incorrectly positioned, gave a misleading road position and basically didnt use the roundabout properly which caused the accident.

its doable i recon

 

Oh jesus!

This the 3rd bumper now!?

One for the rear too?

 

So the Focus was on the roundabout already as you pulled onto it after stopping for the Audi?

 

I think you should just give the facts and allow for the Insurance company to decide as thats what they will do otherwise you will go to court and you can give your story. Personally I think it is the driver of the Focus who was at fault and obviously does not know the highway code as they are 100% in the wrong lane.

This senario happened to my father and he ended up having to go to court, he had a good case but in the end admitted liablility as it was going to cost more money to be out of work to go to court than what it would do in losing his "No Claims". He even had a police officer on a motorbike who witnessed it and said she was to blame !

 

Is that what the highway code states?

The Focus was still in the wrong lane to take the 3rd exit of the roundabout. He should have been in the right hand lane.

 

Nope, you should use the right hand lane if turning right at a roundabout, however it is not a definite legal requirement. Neither, believe it or not, is signalling. The Focus has an element of carelessness in their driving (wrong lane, no signal) but the Seat has a couple of more serious issues: not giving way to a car established on the roundabout; and attempting to overtake at a junction. So on balance, its the Seat whose done more 'wrong' than the Focus.

In situations like this, you need to be more holistic in your approach to motoring. You may obey the rules, but other road users don't! I've been in situations countless times where someone else has done something silly/stupid, but held back rather than going for an overtake, etc. Better to be wrong and avoided an accident; than correct, but had an accident! One day it might be your life, instead of a bumper.

 

The point other people are making that you entered the roundabout after the Focus is totally irrelevant, what if you were doing 30mph and he was doing 15mph, you are bound to catch him up on the roundabout, and would appear to be going faster than him.

Rule 162 of The Highway Code.

How to negotiate a roundabout.

When taking the first exit
signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.

When taking any intermediate exit
select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout, signalling as necessary
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

When taking the last exit or going full circle
signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

In my opinion the Focus driver is totally at fault, regardless what speed you or he was doing, he incorrectly negotiated the roundabout as stated in the Highway Code.

Alright people might say you should be aware of other road users, but at time you need eyes in the back of your head.

Yes the Highway Code is not law, but any time I am reporting anybody for Careless or Dangerous Driving, I will quote the Highway Code, and the courts take it as how you should drive on the road, thus in their opinion as has happen in many cases I have submitted if you haven't driven as per the Highway Code, it can be classed as either Careless or Dangerous driving.

Some peoples point that insurances companies say a roundabout is different and harder to prove sorry, I would never accept 50/50 on this, I see this as any easy cop out for an insurance company.

If I had turned up at this the blame regardless of some witness saying you were going to fast, remember peoples perseption of speed differs greatly, the person to blame most definately would be the Focus driver.

 

he's to blame, he was in the wrong lane......

 

I had no idea what he was going to do...assuming incorrectly that he would be in the left lane to go left or straight on 1st or second exit...surly to god you dont get in the left lane on a duel carrigeway roundabout and turn right! I assumed he would be going straight on, as soon as i got the hint he was going right i was on the brakes but it was far to late. imagine if i was turning right...i again would have been in the correct lane but would have had a offside to my nearside collision with him both trying to exit the 3rd.