Unfortunately the 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 heads cannot be fitted to the 1.4 The 1.4 being the only one with the smaller 76.5mm bore as opposed to the larger bore 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 With the head of the larger bore engines the valves hits the block of the 1.4 with it's small bore size.
The undrilled block breather circle to the left stands out a mile. It'd be interesting to see a 1300 engine. We never got them in the UK, but they are rumoured in Europe, albeit very early days: http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=223181 Also an 1800 would be good to see.
I would have expected the significant increase (9.5 to 10.8) to make much more of an improvement, but actually made nothing more and nothing less. During the previous setups the engine has been optimised to make as much as possible power and torque as high as possible in the rev range with as high as possible rpm limit. Since I now have done some changes to the gear ratios and final drive ratio, with the intention of running 2nd gear as opposed to previously running 1st gear in our gymkhana events, the need now arised to make as much as possible power and torque low down, but keeping the rpm limit as high as possible. Thus during tests 15 and 33 the cam timing was adjusted so to give more gain in the upper range. The dyno corrections has always been set correctly to the ambient conditions at the time of the tests. As mentioned the only the 1.4 head fits on this engine as the valves from the larger bore engine hits the block on this smaller bore engine. It does go very well, but with the 2.112 2nd gear and the 4.46 final drive the engine does not have a lot of punch exiting 20-30km/h corners sitting between 1800-2500rpm.
Our 1300 is a 1272cc unit with bore 75mm and stroke 72mm I'm pretty sure our 1595cc 1600 and 1781cc 1800 units are the same as the Europe and UK units wrt is basic dimensions albeit other small differences, but stand to be corrected.
That is dyno testing for you. Good thing is you have proof that a modification, done in good faith did not work as you would have desired and you can go back and think why. I am of the opinion the cylinder head that has to be used seems to be the reason why this project cannot be further improved in the direction you want i.e increased low down torque and less torque decay at high rpm. Hence the loss on low down torque and the improvement in torque peak and ramp some 800 rpm later. Should be automated, but I take your word for it. So you need more torque at lower revs, when you are off cam and less torque decay at high revs. Larger engine with the same philosophy?
Correct, in this configuration they do have the plastic oil separator/breather system. Not clearly visible in this very bad cellphone pic... This actually a picture of my engine and gearbox being put back into the car after the rebuild.
As you say you converted your car from a 1.3, did you have to move the engine mount on the timing belt end of the chassis leg? I ask this as the 1272cc is a small block capacity and normally they use an engine mount on the front of the block that attatches to the chassis leg nearer the front on the car.
Yes, hence my reason for starting this thread. I'm interested in the comments as to why I'm not seeing more of an improvement. I'm of the opinion at the moment that I have reached the the flow capability of the head with the current setup, no porting and flowing work has been done to the head yet. Only the port matching of the intake. My issue with this is general knowledge leads one to keep port sizes smallish to keep air velocity up to make good low down torque. Now if I should have the head flowed and ported would the larger ports make an improvement in low down torque or would it have a negative effect? Although if my theory of the flow limit is correct, would the increased flow actually show a gain low down? This where I'm stuck at the moment. The other option that I have is to re-fit the standard cam or something really mild like a 268 or 272 in order to re-gain some bottom-end with the compromise of the higher rpm limit. Class regulations apply, I'm allowed a maximum of 1449cc and would love to stay in my current class.
No, the engine mounts between the 1300 and 1.4 is the same for both the front of block to chassis leg and the side of block just in front of the starter to radiator cradle area. They both small/short blocks... The 1300, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 all used the same engine mountings. I'm not 100% sure on the 2.0 long and short block though.
Have you got any pics of your old 1.3 engine showing the block or engine mounting? If you say the 1.3 uses the same engine mounts as the 1.4 and larger engines then that comes as a surprise. It could mean that there is actually a 1.3 EA827 engine. We could split off and start another thread for the block and engine mount info once we establish a bit more detail.
IMO, there definitely was in the 1970s. Well, I say definite, I have seen it on the old VW Dealer microfiches Now you've set a challenge!
Hmmm, well so far, brain fade! I have a Scirocco listed with a small block GF-coded 1.3 mill: ^^ 1981 microfiche. Ten years since I've looked at this stuff Mind you, 10 years ago and the 1.7 litre USA EN-codes weren't bouncing off the screen like they are today
The 1.3 EA827 engines were fitted in vehicles during their run in 1973 to 1978. One such vehicle is the Passat and another was the Audi 80 "B1" The 1.3 came are known to have two codes: 55PS ZA 60PS ZF Engine size is 1297 cc Bore = 75 mm Stroke = 73.4 mm CR (ZA) published as 8.5:1 Power and Torque marketed as 55PS @ 5500 rev/min and 65lbft @ 2500 rev/min
Interesting reading that. And that also suggest the evolution of the EA827 engine to larger capacity was always going to be constrained by the original dimensions of a 1.3 engine. It was never going to be possible to get a large capacity oversquare engine. Managing to stretch it as far as 1984cc was impressive. Of course the diesel crank in the petrol engine can stretch it slightly further, but only in an undersquare format.
So do you guy's know this engine then as a big block? Here in SA we know it as the small block and the ADY/2E's as long blocks. My 1300 GY engine code: Capacity: 1272cc Bore: 75mm Stroke: 72mm
So this is a destroked and newer version of the old ZA/ZF codes. "Big block" means external mounted water pump with intermediate shaft to run oil pump. These form the EA827 family of engines i.e. KR, AAL, ABF, 2E and so on. "Small block" would EA111 series of engines.
This is fascinating stuff. Our normal nomenclature: - small blocks (8v & later 16v): crossflow, inlet at the back, exhausts out the front. 1093cc, 1272cc + also a 1400 and 1600 version. - big blocks: GTI engines and related blocks, comonly 1457cc, 1588cc, 1595cc, 1715cc, 1781, 1984cc in the UK / Europe / SA. I think my recollection that a 1300 existed was wrong and the small block 1272cc was fitted in rare European Sciroccos. - tall blocks: generally 1993 onwards, Mk3 Golf. Our codes are 2E, AGG, ADY (8v) & ABF (16v) [+ ABA in the USA?] (after that it went back to shortblock 1.8T).
