Initial Starting Woes

Discussion in '8-valve' started by Kai, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. KAI

    Kai Forum Member

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    Okay, having just put EVERYTHING back together, and setting up the timing at TDC (as best i could tell), i tried to fire up my Mk2 8v (Digifant) this afternoon. Well, it sputtered into life for about 10-15 seconds (lumpy idle, no more than 4/500rpm), at which point, i turned the ignition off, and set about connecting the exhaust downpipe. Subsequent starting attempts have thus far proven to be fruitless, however.

    Fuel gauge says theres 1/4 to 1/3rd of a tank of fuel in there (although its been sat since Feb), and it was jacked up at the front end (would that make a difference?).

    There was a very clean spark, and there was a smell of fuel when plugs were removed - cranking it over with a missing plug resulted in a cloud of fuel vapour (as expected, i guess!).

    All the engine earths are connected up, as are all the vacuum lines & blanking bungs.

    I'm guessing that the timing is wrong though, the crank was lined up at TDC, as was the distributor i think, the intermediate shaft had been marked, so i re-aligned the marks assuming it was TDC. I'm guessing that if the cam was that badly out, then the engine wouldn't even crank over, let alone idle, even roughly.

    Also, when crank is at TDC, what position should the cam lobes on Cylinder #1 be in, or where should the woodruff key lie? There are two marks on the cam pulley, at 90 degrees from each other, so it was set to one mark pointing downwards to the TDC mark on the crank pulley, and the other level with the top of the head....

    What would be your verdict, guys? Timing belt off and start again?
     
  2. Brian.G

    Brian.G Forum Member

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    the #1 cam lobes should be pointing skyward equally in a ''v''like your holding up two fingers.
     
  3. KAI

    Kai Forum Member

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    Hmm, theres a dot on the outside of the pulley that i've not noticed before....does that mean my cam sprocket is on back to front?
     
  4. Brian.G

    Brian.G Forum Member

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    does it line flush with head face at the 3 o clock position when viewed from timing belt end, and the #1 valves are pointing up in a V?
     
  5. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    A lot of them have a mark on both sides of the pulley.
     
  6. G60KG

    G60KG Forum Member

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    If like my 1990 digifant. the cam tdc mark is on the inside of the pulley and it is not a dot but a straight line on one of the teeth. This line should be level with the top of the head. I guess your rocker cover will prevent you seeing the exact top of the head but should be able to guess pretty close or remove rocker.
     
  7. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    as above they have a dot both sides, this is becasue pulley is same on both the cam and int shaft. outside punch mark is used to line up the int shaft, inside mark is to line up the cam to head. its also possible to have the sprocket fiotted wrong way round, if so neither of the marks line up with anything
     
  8. KAI

    Kai Forum Member

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    Well, i whipped the cam cover off and for sure, the Cam & Crank are aligned, the intermediate shaft however, is another story!

    Although the rotor arm lines up with the distributor body, the first time putting everything back together, it fired up and ran for a good 20 seconds (lumpily still, but not as bad as before), before it died and refused to restart. Upon advancing the dizzy, it started, and managed to rev a bit, to about 3k, before it settled back to idle, before dying again shortly afterwards.

    The mark on the distributor body points to the coolant elbow on the front of the head, but in the manuals, it looks like it's pointing 90* to the right....

    Incidentally, despite the alternator being connected up, the battery light on the dash is showing still, i do hope its not a duff alternator :(
     
  9. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    doesnt matter where the dizzy is, just as long as the rotor arm lines up wityh the notch in the housing.
    then put spark lead #1 where the rotor arm is pointing, and fit the leads in this order 1342, clockwise
     
  10. KAI

    Kai Forum Member

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    Well, it's all lined up correctly then. Cam & Crank at TDC, Dizzy at TDC as well, Rotor arm pointing the right way, Firing order correct....but no dice :(

    Fires, splutters for a few seconds, and then dies again :/
     
  11. KAI

    Kai Forum Member

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    Well, i went out to get pictures of everything this morning (i was bored!), and it looks like theres oil where there shouldn't be....in the intake manifold, the plugs were coated in it, and the bung that the UFO plugs into was dribbling it....looks like there might be some in the vacuum line to the FPR as well.

    I've now double checked that the Cam, Crank and Dizzy are all where they're supposed to be, even going as far to take the dizzy out, and make sure its seated correctly....

    *sigh*

    Am i going to have to take the head off all over again? :(
     
  12. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    coated plugs will be why its not firing, clean out the intake, ufo etc and check the plastic cam splash shield is there. check the bores to make sure they arnt completly full of oil, then clean off the plugs and give it another go.
     
  13. KAI

    Kai Forum Member

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    Cam splash shield is deffo in there, what could be causing that much oil to get blown into the bores & PCV system? Will be putting it all back together in a few hours, i have to get some kip though!
     
  14. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    if you're lucky its just a combo of excessive cranking blowing it thru the breather system, and maybe some oil spilled when the head was swapped. if you're unlucky the rings or stem seals have had it! dont start to worry till you've cleaned it all up and tried again.

    Even if the bores looked clean when you put head back on, still possible for crud toi fowl up the sparkies. had same issue on a polo head swap, put everything back how it was before i took head off uisng same sparkies but it wouldnt run cos the plugs were all fowled up! as soon as I cleaned em up it was all good.

    Oh and check the oil level! too much will make it chuck oil thru the breather system.
     
  15. KAI

    Kai Forum Member

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    Yep - the oil level looks to be the culprit [:D]

    I filled it while the front was up on axle stands, and must have got a false reading - i'll drain it off and try again when it gets a little lighter.
     
  16. KAI

    Kai Forum Member

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    I may have a reason in addition as to why its not starting....the knock sensor is still in the boot! DOH!

    However, where the bloody hell does it go? I can find the engine bay plug, but not the 'ole it's supposed to go in....anyone?
     
  17. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    prob wont effect starting, but the hole for it is near the alternator
     
  18. KAI

    Kai Forum Member

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    Found it - although the sensor is fecked by the looks of it.

    The plugs are being SOAKED with oil on every attempt. The timing is correct enough though, it did the same 'running for 10 seconds then get lumpy and die' method as last time.
     
  19. KAI

    Kai Forum Member

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    GRRR!!!!! [:x]

    I've drained the oil to the midway mark on the dispstick and let it sit for a few days to let anything remaining drain back into the sump. Now, this afternoon, i took all the plugs out, cleaned them off - spray of compressed air, dried with a bit of kitchen roll, and put them back in the engine.

    The first attempt to start it had it splutter for a second and again, threaten to fire, but just wouldn't go. Took the plugs out....****ing oil! AGAIN! Plug #4 seems to be getting very oily, #3 is mostly dry, just smells of petrol very heavily, #1 and #2 have a film of oil on them, but not dripping wet.

    Is this a case of 'head back off, replace valve stem oil seals, head back on'? I honestly can't keep throwing much more money at this (for a start my budget has been exceeded by about 400), and i'm getting rapidly ****ed off now!

    Short of trailering it to a garage, i can't think of what else to do.
     
  20. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    the leak seems a bit excessive to be stem seals unless ojne or more of them has split completely or they have come away from the seating?
     

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