Mk2 Golf Brake Upgrade

Discussion in 'Chassis' started by allllec, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. allllec Forum Member

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    Hi there,

    Currently have a 1.6 driver.

    Now the brakes are pretty shocking, so I was thinking for simplicity sake putting some 16v brakes on there.

    Would I need a 16v master cylinder, if so will it just slot into my servo and work okay?

    Also will my current system hook up to to a 16v master cylinder (if needed) and 16v callipers okay?

    And lastly what would I need

    16v callipers
    16v disks
    16v pads

    Are there any other parts I need that don't come with the above?

    Also would it be worth getting VAG ones? Anyone know what the price is like?

    And lastly what size disks does the later 16v use? Is it 256s?

    Cheers

    Alec
     
  2. simonmk2 Forum Member

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    i'm pretty sure you'l need 16v hubs aswell to fit the calipers on
     
  3. neil kaye Forum Junkie

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    i would spend my money on some uprated ones the standard 239's for a 16v are pants anyway,and if you do do the late mk2 conv youl need the hubs too
    you shouldnt need to upgrade on a 1.6 have you bled them
     
  4. allllec Forum Member

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    Aye, they're pretty pants to tell you the truth. Having driven my mates golf with 16v brakes there's definitely a noticeable difference. And since I need a new calliper, pads and disks anyway might as well upgrade it while I'm at it in prep for the new engine.
     
  5. skint_golfer

    skint_golfer Forum Member

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    done it to my early 16v (came with 239mm's as standard), the bits you need:

    (essential)
    256mm disks
    matching pads.
    late 16v callipers.
    late 16v calliper carriers.
    late 16v hubs.
    late 16v hub carriers.
    late 16v ball joints.
    new wheel bearings.

    (worth considering)
    track rods + ends.
    rack boots.
    cv boots.
    hoses.
    bleed nipples.
    calliper rebuild kit (17 for both sides www.bigred.co.uk).

    I did the lot on the bassis that its all in bits anyway so why scrimp on a 5 boot etc and have to do it all again for the next mot???? makes a massive difference [:D]
     
  6. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    a set of gti 8v vented discs n pads plus a bleed would probably be more then enough for a 1.6 driver, save all that money for something else.
     
  7. lord_sharpy Forum Member

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    can you just bolt on the 239mm vented discs when your running a solid disc?
    do you need to change the calipers?
     
  8. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    direct fit on a 1.6 or 1.8 carby, the pads are thinner to make up for the thicker disc :)
    1.3 has a different caliper so needs binning in favour of the 'VWII' caliper as fitted to the 1.6+ MK2
     
  9. WAUOla Forum Member

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    Hi all!

    just pushing my Golf through the local MOT on Friday, to make space for my urquattro's timing belt job.

    So it's a lazy 1.6 CL, alike what seemingly is known as 'Driver' in UK (?).

    The brakes are fine for calm cruising, but I'm considering fettling the engine to GTI level (cam, P&P, 39.5mm valves, 4-2-1 and Jetex). Remembering how my old 16V was, revising the setup may not be a bad idea regardless.

    EBC green and vented discs are 145 GBP delivered. Not sure if EBC grooved vented discs and green pads are worth it at 250 GBP...?

    Any takes on what would be a reasonable enhancement for such a car?
     
  10. Jon Olds Forum Junkie

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    cheapest brake upgrade is pads only. the difference can be night and day
    Jon
     
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  11. Tristan Forum Junkie

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    I fitted 239 gti vented discs to a mates tuned 1.3. Noticeable improvement. But nothing like when I later fitted 16v hubs and 256mm brakes.
     
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  12. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    the driver was a different trim level exclusive to the UK, basically a CL with GTI arch trims and spot lamp grille. the C and CL were still available trim levels

    so anyway yea as its a 1.6 you already have VWII calipers so the GTI stuff is direct bolt on fit, as long as the kit you buy is a decnt make you'll be ok for a daily driver really. only when you're going on track you really want to pay the extra and if you wanted to go that route go for larger brakes.

    250 quid would get you a set of 256 or 280mm brakes with decent pads and discs with change left over to put it another way
     
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  13. WAUOla Forum Member

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    John: True. But getting that vented disc spec isn't that much of a investment (if any noticeable on a 2000 mile/year MAX oldtimer).

    So.
    1. Pads. EBC Greenstuff (don't seem to find the correct alt. Ferodo DS Performcance FDS392)
    2. GTI spec pads+vented discs, probably Greenstuff and regular discs
    3. Uprated OEM spec brakes on 256/288mm dimension
    Is it worthwhile doing option 2 over 1 ?

    Ideally, I'd do the 256mm setup and get the drums away at the rear. Cost for EBC discs and pads same as GTI 8V. But it's all the extra with the hubs etc for allowing the 256mm.

    (That said, I swapped the 276mm twin-pots on my urquattro and is setting that up on Yellowstuff R, so free to use calipers at hand if I do change hubs to allow such brake setup.)
     
  14. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    yeah you dont need to go crazy for a car with close to GTI power levels, unless you're going to be doing regular track days. as long as the system is overall in good health the 239mm brakes are ok, I found the solid brakes on my wifes MK2F polo were a lot better than the vented brakes on my mk2 GTI becasue the Polo was in tip top condition, and my mk2 had been neglected for a long time :lol:

    256/280mm brakes would be a noticeable improvement, but again not really needed. if you have future plans to upgrade the engien then think about it, otherwise no need to worry. I've got 256mm on my MK2 with ABF engine now, and I also put a set on my mk1 cabby 16v and they work great
     
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  15. WAUOla Forum Member

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    eBay is stating around the €200 mark for 16V hubs alone, which would be the first step towards achieving such upgrade.

    Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the response. :) It's just that it will be a cost-driver on top of the actual discs and pads.
    The car is by no means a daily. Think it has done 10 000km in the last 16 years, or something like that. [:D]

    But I'd like something for a bit more spirited road use, and potentially a very seldom, mild round at the track.
    edit: might be this is just way too obvious... Either just enhance the basis which would be "GTI spec" greenstuff, vented 239 discs and a proper DOT fluid. Then at a later stage, the full 16V conversion style, one way or the other.

     
  16. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    you got to shop smart if you wanna go bigger ;)
    Same setup also used for mk2 caddy van, polo saloon and estate tdi, higher spec non-gti mk3 including cabrio, corrado and passat plus various seat ibiza/toledo/cordoba. caddy & mk3 hubs come up pretty cheap on ebay as they are 'low spec'. if the dono is a mk3 watch out as the calipers and carriers may be for solid 256mm discs, and wont fit over vented stuff.

    but yeah, as I say if its not going to be upgraded any further than gti cam and such just get a semi decent set of vented discs and pads, thats all you need
     
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  17. WAUOla Forum Member

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    Damnit. Believe I just realized something.

    The "bang for the buck" vented discs in 239mm with i.e. green stuff may halt with idea EBC.
    Just found a local ad for their DP2517/2 pads (Greenstuff) and USR095 slotted discs - they look solid items.

    Double checking the catalogue, all 8Vs seems to share the same references on DP2517 + USR095...
    Could be a move from EBC, as there are VAGs running the solid 239s as rears, if I'm not mistaken?

    Then it comes down to the following:
    - either realize the poor hardware they are, and just slap on greenstuff on solid discs
    OR
    - fetch a eBay offered set of Brembo discs instead at €100, and get some pads for that (Ferodo, EBC, OEM...)
     
  18. Tristan Forum Junkie

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    Tbh, the general feedback about EBC on the forums isn't good at all. I'd be looking at pagid, Hawk, Mintex, Ferodo etc. I know I had EBC greens before and they were rubbish.
     
  19. WAUOla Forum Member

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    Open for any good (specific) suggestion to match a pair of Brembo Max'es just ordered.
    A much better price than EBC on vented+slotted 239mm discs...

    edit: GBP 110 set me back a pair of 239x20 Brembo Max'es, Brembo std. pads, and 1L of DOT 5.1. Then I'll just revise the pads later on.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  20. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    The biggest upgrade you need is the pads.
    EBC green pads are near lethal in my opinion.
    Often we do not realise, racers in MK2 GTI Series championships, are not allowed to change brake components. So an 8v car retains the stock 239x20 system and the 20mm brake master.
    The key to their stopping is pad compound and brake fluid with a high boiling point.
    The compromise with certain compounds is whether they are road legal, how much dust they generate, noise and wear rate.
     

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