mk3 r32 swap, help with base car

hi all,

after years with hondas, ive sold up, and my mext project im coming back to vw's

the car im thinking of building is a mk3 golf, running an r32 engine,


what im after is what you's think would be the best/ cheapest way about it??

3 ways i thought of,


buy a 1.4, vr6 subframe hubs gear box etc

buy a gti 8v, think all id need is suframe, brakes,

or get a vr6, highmiler/blown engine

any idea which would be the better and or easiest route

cheers

 

just a non rusty shell in a great colour, everything thing else is just a bolt on

or a late vr6 with thooooosands of miles on

 

which do you think would be the cheaper option??

 

???

 

buy a working vr6 and sell the engine.

 

The r32 'box is great but a bit of a job to fit, a late vr6 5 speed 'box is much much easier, but the ratios may be a little high, as it was more of a motorway cruiser

depends on what you want from the car

 

sometings thats quick, low 6's to 60, bit bigger than a civic, thats why i chose a mk3 over a mk 2,with honda's you get the best by trashing them, hoping buy using a 3.2 vr6, be quick but the torqe the driving style can be a little lazier

 

if the vr6 box is too tall, put a 16v final drive on and make them shorter

 

so would a gti 16v be a better base car??

then all id need is the vr6 subframe, brakes, the engine, mounts, plus bits n bobs.

or would the 8v be better, 8v's are going much cheaper than 16v's, just for a gearbox, or is there other difference's??

 

infact... 16v has the same subframe as the vr6... has the better finaldrive. it has the same hubs/brakes as a vr6 and same ARB setup.

mk3 16vs are the best ever tbh

someone else will have to tell you what the 8v has. i know the 8v has the 5stud hubs but has a different ARB setup.

 

late 8vs, post 96 are the same as vr6s, in the suspension and brakes

A vr6 or R32 will only bolt to a vr6 'box, you can use the 16v final drive, but you need someone to fit it into the vr6 box

the other thing to consider is that it will really need a quaife/peloquin diff, or that torque will just spin up the wheels, especially with the lower diff

 

A 16v gearbox wont fit.

Buy a VR^ and use that as a base car - easy then.

the ratios will be ok, but ideally you'd want to change the final drive in the VR6 box, i'm putting a 3.94 final drive in my 24v conversion.

 

From all this talk it seems that a MK3 16V to R32 is not much more 'complicated'* than sticking a VR6 into a MK3 16V?

*I assume the R32 is DBW which will require lots of mucking around with the pedal box unless aftermarket management is used?

 

Be cheaper to get a mk3 vr6 and supercharge it probably.

Or even buy a mk3 supercharged already!

3.9 final driver = SCREEEEAAAAAAAAMMMMMM on the motorway.

Had one in a track car and 4200rpm @80mph did my nut in. Great on track though!

 

I look at the VR6 and think 2 valves per cylinder; '8v'! I look at an R32 and think 4 valves per cylinder; '16v' Plus it sounds even better.

You cant argue with the VR noise but what has ALWAYS put me off is why go to all that trouble to design and build a narrow V engine and then ONLY use 2 valves per cylinder and no variable inlet manifold as standard! I've tried and tried but I really can't get my head around 12 valve DOHC .

It really does boil back down to the '16v vs 8v' argument for me.

Now an R32 with a 3.94 FD would be terrifying in the wet - I'd have to go 3.68 and a VR 02A box.

I'm only toying with the idea for now - I've counted how much it will take me to build a 2.1 BVH 16v and I nearly fell over in shock; I knew it was going to be a significant sum but I was still surprised- I'd be cheaper sticking in an R32 with cams and a remap. It's not the technical aspects of the conversion that bother me but the time my Golf will be off the road and the 3.2 litres worth of petrol consumption.

 

I see your point and you are correct that an R32 goes and feels better than a good old fashioned VR6 - but you're comparing very different beasts.

Price for price I reckon you could do a supercharged 12v VR6 for the same as an R32 conversion and a whole load quicker.

You can just pop a VR6 straight in or buy a car with one and supercharge it on stock management etc... (See C2 UK for off the shelf N/A or charged software)

For an R32 you have all the increased cost of the engine and loads of little bits to make it fit right. Plus you have to re-wire half the car!

And at the end of the day you have an R32 which tweaked will give 280hp or a charged VR6 giving similar but with bucket loads more torque.

And when you enevitably get bored of 280hp everything is cheaper for tuning a VR6.

The R32 is a great engine but discounting the 12v VR6 just because it's a 2v is madness - especially when installing in a car designed to take a 12v VR6.

 

^^ I see where your coming from. But an R32 engine would be more reliable surely than a charged 100k mile VR6 engine??

plus when you get bored in a year or two you could charge that

 

Reliability wise for the price I'd suggest rebuilding any high mile vr6 you get - it'll still be cheaper than a 50k mile R32. I don't see why at equivalent power a VR6 would be any less reliable than an R32...

The R32 is the ultimate long term option given unlimited time and budget etc...

The mk3 is the chosen platform. Mk3 VR6s exist already so shed loads of time saved doing wiring etc... and time is a limitation of this project.

The fast option is obviously go vr6. If your long term plans have a strong desire for an R32 then going vr now will ultimately waste time and money in the long term.

Personally, I'd get a tidy mk3 vr6 that someones already put decent suspension etc... on and get on the phone to someone that can provide rotrex charger fitting parts. Then you'd have potentially a 400hp car for maybe the same money as an R32 conversion and probably a lot quicker. Also, no huge re-wire of the car... (which in my limited experience is normally the source of reliability problems on conversions anyway)

It's just a thought like, it depends what you want from it. A charged/turbod R32 would be awesome long term but will cost a LOT.

 

Jumping in a bit here and i've posted the same question elsewhere. Will any FWD Golf be able to handle the big, heavy R32? surely it wont make it round corners...