My 16v Turbo Track Car

Discussion in 'Members Gallery' started by sparrow, Oct 19, 2006.

  1. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Bedford was awesome!! :thumbup:[:D]
    I'd booked on it as a shake down day, primarily because I'd been there before and there was lots of run off if something went wrong.

    Monday was an early start, I was on the road at 6:45. I was then off the road by 7, as the boost hose blew off again as soon as I used more than half throttle. At least I'd had some practice refitting it, so it wasn't too much of a delay. I then took it easy, and followed sat nav to Bedford.

    Got there just in time for the briefing. Chatted with a few people, sat through the briefing, and then headed over to the pits to unpack.
    Nige immediately came over, and replaced the boost pipe clamp for me. Thanks Nige. :thumbup:
    Out for the sighting laps, and then back in to the pits. I decided to miss the first mad rush, and check tyre pressures (NSF was 35 PSI!!) and wheel nuts, oil levels etc.
    Then I headed out for the first time in over 4 years!

    Not for long though. I picked up a suspension knock pretty much straight away. I headed back in, and did a quick check over, but nothing was obvious. The best way to describe the sound was like a broken/loose engine mount, as the noise came when the clutch was engaging.

    I went out again, but the knock was still there. I came back in and decided to do a thorough check. Checked all the suspension bolts, gearbox mount, front mount. I even jacked the engine up a bit, but everything looked fine. I found the two bolts through the subframe holding on the rear engine mount could be tighter, but they certainly weren't loose. Everything else seemed fine.

    Went out again, and the noise wasn't there any more. Seemed a bit suspect, but as I built up, all was quiet, so I started to push on a little, learning the lines, braking points, and, more importantly, how the car felt. It's been bent, straightened, had loads of bits replaced, new steering rack and suspension, etc. so it was a complete learning experience.
    I took it fairly easy, but did push a little more each time, and came in after 3 or 4 laps. A quick check over, and everything looked fine.

    I let everything cool down, good visual check over, incluing fluid levels, but nothing had moved. It was now 12, so just enough time for a session before lunch.
    Or not. As I pulled off in the pit lane, the knock was back. The only thing I hadn't checked were the front top mounts, as they were brand new.
    It was a good thing I did:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That's not supposed to happen...
    Really annoyingly, I had dithered about keeping a full set of Mk2 top mounts as spares just in case, but decided not to bother and returned them to GSF.

    A massive thanks to Phil (PAB) for running me to GSF in Bedford after lunch where I picked up some Mk2 top mounts, and fitted them.

    Straight back out, and the car felt and sounded perfect, so I really started pushing on.
    Unfortunately I'd left the camera on at some point earlier (I have a great video of the car being worked on), so there's no video of the after lunch sessions. I think there were two, but I'm not sure. I replaced the battery when I came in and realised it was off.

    I was about to head out again, when a Lotus dropped loads of oil and the track was closed.

    They reconfigured the track, and we ran on the South/East/North loop which was 2.8 miles long, and it was also great. Video below.

    So, how was the car?

    The front end and steering felt perfect. It was predictable, and there was loads of traction even with T1Rs all around.
    The rear needs a bit of work, as it feels like it's steering a bit from the rear. I'd noticed it on the road, and remembered the car doing it previously, but I'd put it down to the crap old suspension. Clearly its not, but more on the in a bit.
    If I over cooked it a bit, the car tended to understeer, and sometimes bounced a bit on the suspension. I'm not sure if it's the damping that needs adjusting, or if it's bouncing on the top mounts.

    The engine was awesome. The oil never went over 110, the oil pressure was rock solid all day, and the water temps were below half at all times on track. I didn't do more than 10 minutes at a time, but very happy with that.
    It used a bit of oil, but the oil was right to the top of the dip stick. Half way through the day, it was no longer smoking when cold (after changing the top mounts). I seem to remember this from before. It's almost like I have the wrong dipstick, but I know it was changed at some point as it had a 20v one in by mistake. I'm going to leave the oil for a bit now, and monitor usage at the next couple of track days.

    For the first time ever I have a working camera in the car. Here's the last session from the SEN layout after the Lotus dropped oil from the pit exit to the top of the straight.

    [video=youtube;yx83hUBQUcc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx83hUBQUcc[/video]

    I'm happy with the camera location, but I need to make a mount that vibrates less. For a bit of copper pipe, it worked fine.

    So what's next?
    First thing to fix is the rear end. The beam has never been off the car since I've owned it, so I have no idea what bushes are in there. I have a proper triangulated rear beam with poly bushes in the garage, so that's going on straight away.
    That's the only thing I have to change, which I'm massively impressed by. I rebuilt this myself, having never done anything like this before.

    I have the solid steering mount to go on, which I want to do as well. That will be done when I have a bit of cash to pay Stealth to do it as it requires the subframe coming off.

    There's loads I want to do, of course, but I want to do it slowly, and measure changes. I could make a list as long as my arm off the top of my head, but once the rear beam is changed, it's ready for another track day. The front brake pads will need changing if I do a full track, but should be fine for Curborough which is probably the next time out.
    I'm on the lookout for some wheels and tyres as well, as T1Rs are OK, but they were going off at Bedford.

    Massively, massively happy, and already looking forward to the next track day. :thumbup:
     
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  2. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Found a pic:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  3. PAB

    PAB CGTI Regional Host

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    Anytime Alex if I can help :thumbup:
     
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  4. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    The tale of 2 9A turbos...
    Glad you enjoyed your day Alex!
     
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  5. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Bought the pics from the photographer. Here are a couple.

    Still lifting the inside rear a bit, but not as much as previously. Not on track tyres yet though.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  6. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    I've not done anything to the car since Bedford, but today I had a couple of hours, so I thought I'd try a couple of things. I completely forgot to take pictures.

    I had some heat shield tape left over from the bulkhead. I decided to use some to protect the bonnet above where the turbo sits.

    I also recently bought a cable to connect my laptop to the ECU. I tested that today, and it works. I'm going to leave the cable in the car permanently, so want to run it through the bulkhead. Luckily, there's a great big hole just behind the ECU where the cage goes through. It's no big enough to get the plug through, so I'm going to have to chop the cable, run it through, and then resolder it. Luckily the cover over the end plug is fairly simple to open, so I can unsolder the wires, feed the cable though, and then solder it up again.
    I'll then buy a 12v laptop charger, and mount a laptop in the car. This will be used for logging, and can also be used to change any settings required.

    I then went for a drive to the local tip, and stuck the car on their weigh bridge. With about 35 litres of fuel (20 in jerry cans behind the seat lol), the car was 900kg on the dot. How accurate a weigh bridge is I don't know, but it's good to have a real reading at last. :thumbup:

    I've now parked the car in the garage with the rear closest to the door, so I can make a start on swapping the rear beam next time I have some time. This means I don't have to get it all done in one go.
     
  7. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    So Curborough is on Sunday, and I've barely touched the car since above. I've literally driven it to the pub and back twice. [:$]

    Filled it up with fuel today, will pack tomorrow along with a fluids check and then off to Curborough.
     
  8. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    As always, what a great day out.

    Preparation for this was minimal. Actually, it was non-existent. I literally threw the torque wrench and impact gun in a box, along with my laptop and few other bits. I didn't even check the oil until after a couple of runs.

    The drive up on Sunday morning was wet. Very wet. I arrived in good time, but couldn't unpack as I had no where to leave my stuff.
    Driver's briefing was brief, and we decided to run the figure of 8 in the morning, and the normal layout in the afternoon. I voted for this, as it was wet, so we may as well do something different.

    We did a sighting lap behind Eddie, and then started running. Prawn kindly let me use his tent to store thing in, although the rain had stopped by now. It was still threatening and wet though.

    The first two runs were very slippery, but after that the track was dry for the rest of the day.
    Today was all about learning to drive the car aggressively again. Second outing in over 4 years, and I've completely forgotten how to attack. Each session I was realised just how slow I was going, by pushing harder and harder, but still being way off what I used to do.

    I did 4 runs between 10 and 12, and then had some food. I didn't get out after lunch straight away, as Trev and I were doing some coding.

    I had three runs on the old layout. The first one I used to find the braking point for the hairpin. The second one I checked my braking point, and confirmed it was correct by completely out braking myself, and then the third one was OK. I had Jerry as a passenger (Eddie's son) for the third one.

    As always, I had to leave a bit early to get home to collect the girls, so have no idea what times I did. I'll find out in a couple of weeks.

    Here are a few pics from various photographers. Thanks all.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'll sort out the videos soon.
     
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  9. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    Thanks for taking out my little man. He enjoyed it immensely. He said, "daddy its quick!"...
     
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  10. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    I have a video of the run. I think the helmet may have been a bit heavy for him. lol
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2014
  11. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    If that was so, I guarantee he would never complain...Proper petrol head that boy!
     
  12. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Here you go. Last run of day. I can't help laughing at Jerry nutting the seat.

    [video=youtube_share;X0cXCOA_9Kw]http://youtu.be/X0cXCOA_9Kw[/video]
    http://youtu.be/X0cXCOA_9Kw
     
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  13. Sirguydo

    Sirguydo Fastest milkman in the West Paid Member

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    Aww poor fella looks like a nodding dog lolyoull have to call him Churchill nowlol
    But reckoned he enjoyed himself a huge amount:thumbup:
     
  14. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Development on this has been zero lately. All my spare time is currently going in to DTADroid here.

    However, looking at Gurds' car at Curborough made me want to at least plan what's next. It's all suspension related.

    The sound man moaned at me about having the fuel pumps exposed in the car. It's a fair point, if one of the high pressure fuel lines comes off, there's load fuel going all over the interior of the car, including me. It's been on the to do list, but I'll move it up the priority list.

    I guessed a bit on the springs for the new suspension, and went softer on the rear than on the front, despite the old suspension running the same all around. It's definitely too soft at the rear, and understeers more now than before.
    I want to up the rear springs to match the fronts, add helpers all round to keep the rears on the ground, and redo the droop.
    At the same time I'll finally fit the rear beam with new bushes.

    Up front I want to add ball joint spacers, and flip the tie rods over.
    Before that, I need to fix how the front ball joints are attached to the arms. When I bought them, I didn't get the spacers. I'd planned to get some made up, but they ended up having the gaps welded up and the ball joints mounted on top. This isn't ideal.
    I'll find a local engineering shop to make a slot for the ball joints to fit in.

    I also still want to fit the solid front steering rack mount.

    I'm currently down to one set of wheels. I'm tempted to switch to 5 stud now, as there's plenty of cheap 5 stud wheels around.

    The next track day I have booked is Donny in October. I'd like to do something before then, but funds are limited, so I might use the time to get all the above done around developing DTADroid.
     
  15. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    I have the whole day today to myself, as well as tomorrow morning, so I decided to tackle changing the rear beam today. It's one of goof's, although it came to me via another member who bought it and then didn't use it.

    Old vs new:
    [​IMG]

    The old bushes were a bit beyond their best. I've had the car since 2006, and have never changed them, so they are completely unknown.
    [​IMG]

    New poly bushes on the new beam:
    [​IMG]

    Close up of the tower:
    [​IMG]

    Something's missing here:
    [​IMG]

    No pictures of it done, it looks the same. lol

    While it was apart, I also decided to make a better effort of fitting the top mounts on the rear suspension. I'd just used cut down top mounts previously, as I couldn't get the new ones to fit.
    This time I managed to, although it did require a second pair of hands.

    The front springs had settled a bit, so they had a bit of float, so I took that up. Next I'm getting some 2" long helper springs, to get a bit of droop.
    I'd hoped this was the cause of the front end knock. There's definitely less knocking, but something else isn't quite right. I checked the suspension bolts and top mounts, but they were all tight.

    I went for a quick test run, and can definitely feel the difference. The rear is much more stable, and doesn't wander. However, I can confirm that, despite the rear feeling like there's not travel, the suspension is moving as the rose jointed arm knocks against the exhaust. Only on really sharp bumps, so it's not urgent. However, it will need looking at as I want to lower the car another inch or so when I use the ball joint spacers up front.

    While moving the car around looking for the knock, I noticed how much of the suspension movement is now in the front top mounts. I need to upgrade the front to proper top mounts.

    I've ordered some new wheels too. After a fair amount of research, I found these:
    [​IMG]

    They are Konig Dial In wheels, about the same weight as ATS DTCs, but about 2/3 of the price. If the work, I'll be really pleased. I've ordered 15 x 7, but they also do 15 x 8 and 15 x 9 in ET35.
    Unfortunately there's a 5 week back order for any colour except white.
    Hopefully they'll be here in time for Curborough. I've got an old set of 205/50/15 R888s that I want to try for clearance. If they don't fit, I'll see about body work changes, or I'll just have to stick with 195/50/15s. I want to try the Dunlops next, they look really good.
     
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  16. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    So a closer look revealed that the exhaust situation is a little more urgent than I'd realised. The knocking I can hear is when the exhaust is being lifted up against the shell. This is what it looks like at rest:

    [​IMG]
    The water droplets on the tie rod are from the hole that's already been knocked in the exhaust.

    I remember Nige sourcing a good quality exhaust, so found the details on the thread (eventually!), and have ordered a smaller version. I currently run a single back box at the rear of the exhaust system. It's very old, so I'm hoping to get away with a single centre silencer instead. I'm currently 97/98 static, but very quiet on drive by, as even Bedford didn't twitch.
    If not, I can add a second smaller one at the rear later.

    The plan is to fit a 24" centre silencer, and just remove the current rear silencer, replacing it with a piece of straight pipe from where the new centre box goes.

    The comp brake tie rods have arrived, and the helper springs are on the way too. I've had the ball joint spacers for a few years already.
    Unfortunately, I'm a little stuck with the rear springs. I have 220mm long, 9kg/mm 2.5" springs on the rear, and want to up them to 11kg. BC Racing only do 11kg/mm springs in 180mm length.
    I need to measure if they're going to be long enough.
     
  17. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    8" and 9" rims with et35 are going to be a bit odd figment.....nice wheel though
     
  18. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    They do other fitments too, but if I want a wider wheel, I can now get some in the correct offset for a Golf.

    If I have a 15 x 7j ET35 wheel, and I want to go to a 15 x 8J wheel, the off set should stay the same. This will cause the wheel to stick out further, but it won't mess up scrub radius/roll centres.

    Here's my thought process.

    Wheel offset (ET) is measured as the distance from the centre of the wheel (key for scrub radius and roll centre below) to the mounting face. Here's a diagram, taken from this page (really useful page, shows how to measure and calculate all the relevant values).
    [​IMG]

    Golf's have on offset of plus 37, so that picture is quite accurate.

    Now, the scrub radius is measured using the centre of the wheel/tyre, as is the roll centre.

    So, if I want a wider wheel, but I don't want the centre of the wheel to change, the off set cannot change either. It must stay the same.

    Think of it like this. Take a 7J wheel with an offset of 37, and weld an inch of material to the inside of the wheel, to make an 8J wheel.
    Using the diagram above, this would move the centre of the wheel half an inch away from the mounting face, so the offset would now be 37 + 12.6 = 49.6mm.
    Now bolt this wheel to the car. The centre of the wheel is now half an inch closer to the centre of the car, so you have a scrub radius of 12.6mm.
    This will also affect the roll centre slightly.

    Similarly, if you weld an inch to the outside of the wheel, the offset would move half an inch closer to the mounting face, so the ET would 37 - 12.6 = 24.4mm.
    Bolting this wheel to the car would also give a scrub radius of 12.6mm, just outside the wheel centre instead of inside as above.

    Now take the 7J wheel, and weld half an inch to each side of it. The centre line and offset won't change.
    Bolting it to the car will give the same scrub radius and roll centre.

    If I've got this wrong, please let me know. :thumbup:
     
  19. Sirguydo

    Sirguydo Fastest milkman in the West Paid Member

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    Sounds right to me :thumbup: but what that means I'm not really surelol

    Rear beam looking good :thumbup:

    Vvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

    Robs got a good point there check the inner clearance [:s] didn't think about that but it's obvious when someone tells you lol but that's why we come on here to get help off other Nutters ;)

    vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  20. RobT

    RobT Forum Junkie

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    the wider the rim, the offset has to reduce to stop it hitting the strut, 8" needs to be something like ET25, 9" something like ET10-15
     
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