My 16v Turbo Track Car

Discussion in 'Members Gallery' started by sparrow, Oct 19, 2006.

  1. Sirguydo

    Sirguydo Fastest milkman in the West Paid Member

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    Yes
    lol
     
  2. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    You've just got to line the bolt holes up. I used a torch to see the holes. Don't tighten any of the bolts up until all 4 are in.
    Ideally have something soft nearby to hit. Hard. Lots.
     
  3. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    I took the day off work today, and had the afternoon to work on the car.

    I fitted the rear calipers, the reducer, the harder rear springs, swapped the tie rod end spacers around, and tightened up some bolts, including the NSF top mount which was quite loose.
    I used my Gunson Eezibleed, and seem to have got a decent bleed first time, for the first time ever. :thumbup:
    I refitted the spacers at the front, and the wheels now don't rub the Compbrake tie rod ends on full lock.

    Unfortunately, the OSF wheel has been slightly damaged when the arm broke. A small groove has been rubbed into the inside of the wheel. Not serious, but really annoying. I've swapped the front wheels to the back as well to balance out the wear.

    I want to replace the spark plugs, as the car was missing under load a bit at the end of the day at Curborough. These spark plugs have been in the engine since 2009, so could do with replacing.
    Oil and filter can wait until the new year.

    I just need a wheel alignment doing, spark plugs, refit camera mount and I'm ready for Donington.

    I might try and do the door cards, or the proper oil pressure sender I've bought, but I'll see how time goes.
    I've also got the CL brake pads. Dithering about fitting them. Probably should, but then will have to bed them in.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2014
  4. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Wheel alignment is done, so I'm just about ready for Donington.
    Annoyingly the exhaust has started blowing. Not 100% sure, but suspect the front of the new silencer. If I get a chance I'll get that done before Donington.
    Spark plugs being collected this weekend, aiming to fit them and the camera mount on Sunday morning.

    After Donington, I doubt I'll be doing any more track days this year, so time to make a list of jobs to do over the winter.

    Winter Upgrades
    • Add hole to suspension arm. Using wrong one on fixed suspension arm
    • Fit oil pressure reducer to turbo. Maybe copy Gurd's oil feed solution
    • Mount a tablet to use DTADroid
    • Fit proper oil pressure sender. VDO aren't accurate, and DTA can read a proper 3 wire sender. I have the sender, just need to fit it and wire it in.
    • Run DTA cable through bulkhead. Needs the cable chopping, feeding the cable through, and joining together again.
    • Sort out electric cut out switch wiring
    • Adjust brake pedal height, and add pedal covers to allow easy heel and toe.
    • Add extra rear silencer
    • Door cards from plastic
    • Create new cover for fuel pumps/lines where they are in the car. I'm not a fan of having those exposed when I'm in the car.
    • Redo the in car fuel lines in Teflon fuel hose. Should lessen the fuel smell, as they are supposedly better than the rubber hoses I have now. Plus I keep stabbing myself on mine as they're old and frayed.
    Nice to at some point list:
    • Fix dent from where wheel fell on the car, as well as a few other nicks.
    • See if it's possible to fit a Mk3 ARB to one of the camber bolts. Maybe use AST ARB attachment.
    • Replace fuel fillers. The current ones are for fast fill jerry cans used in endurance racing. PITA at petrol stations.
    • Sort fuel level gauge/sender.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  5. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    I fitted the spark plugs today. Switched to Bosch FR7KPP33+ from NGK PFR6Q on Stealth's recommendation.
    Swapped the front pads, glad I did, the DS3000s were starting to break up at the edges.
    Also refitted the camera mount.

    Unfortunately I've traced the "exhaust" leak. The turbo has come loose from the exhaust manifold. [:x] Common problem with these turbos. The studs are M8, and stretch quite easily. I'll have to get Stealth to tighten them, as I'm not going to be able to do it. I'll see if they can fit M10 studs at the same time, although I doubt that'll happen this week.

    Other than that, ready to go, apart from filling up with fuel. :thumbup:
     
  6. m1keh Forum Member

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  7. Sirguydo

    Sirguydo Fastest milkman in the West Paid Member

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    Bring some bits to donny and we can se what can be done :thumbup:
    I'll have a bit of time while I let my mates crash my car lol
    I'll bring jack and stands and long wobbly extensions [:D]
     
  8. Nige

    Nige Paid Member Paid Member

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    Loose studs there are SO common!
     
  9. MUSHY 16V

    MUSHY 16V Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    A problem thats more common than you would think

    Need fighting on 3 fronts

    The stud material needs to be able to take the heat without yielding and locked into the housing plus a locking nut

    You get locking helicoils could be worth looking into long term
     
  10. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Thanks all.
    This is very common. The simplest fix is just to remove the M8 nuts, drill the manifold to M10, and drill the turbo as well. This is proven to work, and will be done over the winter.
    I just need it tightened up for Donington and it will be fine.

    Thanks, but I'd rather get it fixed this week in case stud needs replacing, or the gasket is damaged. I'd rather not risk missing track time. :thumbup:
     
  11. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    Very common indeed. I got high quality studs from Horsham Developments in m10x1.25. Then I had the manifold surface machined flat then used some nordlocks to finish off. Not come loose yet but needs a longer stint to test durability.

    Gurds
     
    HummuH and sparrow like this.
  12. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Car's fixed. The exhaust manifold gasket has seen better days, so it was turbo off:

    [​IMG]

    The exhaust manifold needs to go for skimming because of this, so it will all come off over winter, and get the studs done at the same time.

    The new pads feel really good, I should have changed the brake pads ages ago.

    All that's left for Sunday is to wash the inside of the windscreen, fill up with fuel and check the oil.
     
  13. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Donington

    Ive been looking forward to this for ages. The car prep had been completed with plenty of time, Id borrowed a trailer for the weekend, so the journey was a lot more relaxed, and there was a great bunch of people to look forward to meeting. Plus a whole load of reprobates.

    I packed up on Sunday, and headed up mid-afternoon. I was staying at the Premier Inn, along with some of the others. There were already a couple of cars in the car park when I checked in. I then headed down to the bar, and found some of the reprobates. About 7 we headed over to the Hilton, and found some more reprobates. It was great to catch up with old friends, and chat with some new ones.
    Having a social the evening before is great, and really sets the day up well.

    I didnt sleep brilliantly, as I turned off the air con. This meant the room was a sauna by 3:30. A bit of broken sleep later and my alarm went off at 6. Breakfast at 6:30 then over to the track to unpack. Dex was already there, with a garage nabbed as close to the canteen as possible. I unpacked, torqud up the wheels, checked oil, fitted cameras, and was ready to go. Chatted a bit, signed on, and then helped NickD of MOT to unload a lot of tires.

    Driver briefing was entertaining as always, and then it was time to head out on track. The sighting lap went without hitch. I then torqued up the wheels, so it was time for some track time.

    First session started, and I immediately noticed a vibration at speed. Not serious, but not as things should be. That ****ing clonk was back though. I did a couple of laps, then came in to see what to do about the vibration The obvious starting point was the tires, so I unpacked the road tyres and fitted them, and went back out. Unfortunately the session was red flagged before I did half a lap, so I had to come straight in without being able to get up to speed, but the clonk was worse. Aaaargh. [:x]

    I was convinced it was the NS subframe bolt, but I couldnt find anything wrong. I decided to loosen both of them off, and then compare them. Eddie jumped in to help, and they were loosened off. The OS bolt captive nut broke off back in 2008, so Ive always just had a normal nut and washer on there. I loosened off the NS bolt, and levered the suspension around to see what was going on, and Eddie helped with the OS bolt.

    It was pretty obvious what was wrong. In the crash in 2009, the bolt has been pushed back due to the lack of a captive nut, elongating the hole. The OS rear subframe bolt was able to move back and forward about half an inch. Thats going to require welding.

    Id also noticed that there appeared to be an oil leak from the front of the engine, possibly from the oil cooler area. Not serious, but enough to leave a few drips on the floor.

    Fortunately Mike (sirguydo) had packed his welder. Unfortunately hed left the ends at home.
    I tried the units on the industrial estate at the entrance, but the Formula E teams were all away, the bookatrack welder was in Scotland and the driver-training guys didnt have a mechanic there. However, they were fantastically helpful, and pointed me to a VW specialist in Castle Donington called absolute VW.

    I bolted the car back together, and drove down there. It turns out they specialise in old air cooled stuff. They had an amazing collection of cars there, including a 70s beetle, 4 or 5 camper vans, all in various states of disrepair. The welding was quickly done, and I headed back to the track in time for lunch.
    There is still a knock, but not the same as before. This sounded more like top mounts, as it's only when I go over bumps.

    As it was lunch time, I decided to look at the top mounts. Id noticed that the amount of thread on the NS top mount sticks out less than the OS top mount. I took it apart and put it together 3 times, including removing and refitting the castellated nut, but it was the same each time. I then looked at Eddies car, as he has the same suspension as me, and they appeared to be the same.
    I decided it was time to drive it again, as lunch was nearly finished.

    I went out on the road tyres, and a quick couple of laps showed there was no vibration, so it must have been the other tires. Nick at MOT balanced them for me, I refitted them and headed out.

    I had an awesome session. The car was predictable, controllable and great fun. I started working on my lines, and was getting smoother and faster. After 5 or 6 laps, the car started to understeer, as it does when the tyre pressures rise, so I came in. Sure enough, the fronts were up to 32psi, so I dropped them down. Unfortunately I forgot to start the camera, so I have no video. :(

    Id promised Rob (Dexs friend) a pax lap, so took him out. A quiet warm up lap was brought to an abrupt end when a boost hose blew off coming on to the back straight. A few people commented they heard it from the pits! Unfortunately it was the pipe from that mounts on to the intercooler inlet, which is a complete pain. It took a while to fit, then we went out again, but I obviously hadnt fitted it properly as it blew off again straight away.

    Much cursing, many cuts and about 30 minutes later, it was back on properly. Rob hopped in again, and we went out.
    Apologies to anyone who tried to chat to me during this time. I was very grumpy, and probably quite short with you. No offence meant.

    A gentle out lap to warm things up, and then it was time to wind it up down the back straight. Only for the boost to disappear with a very similair sound to the boost hose coming off, but not quite. The plume of smoke out the rear of the car pointed to a more serious issue, but there was still good oil pressure so I drove back to pits slowly. Coming in to the pits I could hear a very rough noise from the engine bay, so I turned off the engine and pushed it back in to the garage.

    A quick investigation of the engine bay showed nothing untoward. No extra oil above what Id noticed earlier, so I started the engine up. Sounded normal, but soon there was loads of smoke in the engine bay, so I turned off the engine. I then heard the turbo winding down as the impellors rubbed on the housing. Day over.

    So a very mixed day. Massively positive in that Ive finally found the clonk, and also that the car was awesome in the session that I was able to run. Frustrating that I lost the morning to some unbalanced tyres, and having to get the subframe nut welded, then the boost pipe coming undone, and finally the turbo blowing.

    The turbo has been on borrowed time though. When I crashed in 2009, I had done nearly a whole lap at the Ring in 30* plus heat. The oil was running at over 130* on the day, so I fully expected the turbo to have been damaged. They dont take kindly to not being cooled down properly. Im amazed it lasted the whole year. At a recent rolling road day at Badger 5, they commented on a puff of smoke from the turbo when the throttle shut at the end of the run.
    Had the turbo been rebuildable, I wouldnt have risked it, but Garrett dont sell the parts for these, you can only buy an entire core, so I wasnt losing anything by running it until it died.

    So the winter plan is to refresh the engine, replace the turbo and strip and rebuild the front end to find the final knock. Ill be checking top mounts, all the rose joints, and aiming to replace as many of the bolts as possible.

    The engine needs a refresh. Some of the gaskets have started leaking as it was left lying around for 4 years. As it has to mostly come apart anyway, it would make sense to change the main bearings while Im about it. The head shouldnt need touching.

    Turbo wise I have a couple of options. I can get a new core for the current housing, I can get a complete new turbo, or I can get a GTX2863R (thanks Ram. I think), which is almost identical to this one, but ever so slightly bigger with a newly designed exhaust turbine. Ill need to take the current turbo apart to see whats actually let go. The GTX is a lot more though, so Im unlikely to be able to afford it.
    I was talking to Owen Developments today, and they offer an upgrade to the bearing housing cage (IIRC), which is plastic on all the turbos. Its replaced with a metal cage. I cant imagine how plastic would survive in a turbo, but there we go. Based on the sounds being made by the turbo in the pits, Im fairly certain thats whats gone on mine.
    Ill also be fitting M10 studs and Nordlock washers to ensure it doesnt come loose again anytime soon.
    Along with fitting a restrictor to the turbo oil feed, the new turbo should then be fine for a good while.

    All in all, a positive year. I didnt expect plain sailing after completely rebuilding the car after what was a pretty big shunt. Each time the car has been out, its felt better and better. Im already looking forward to taking the car apart. I wont do the engine refresh, thats still not something Im willing to risk, especially after seeing what happened to Nige and Gurds this year. All the rest will be done by me though.

    Im hoping to borrow a bit of space in a unit nearby. I have a couple of friends with some space, so hopefully Ill be able to move the car and all my tools there, and just leave the car on axle stands while for a couple of months while I work on it.

    Roll on next year. :thumbup:
     
    Nige and pascal77uk like this.
  14. AjVR Forum Member

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    Great write up! At least it happened all at the end of the year so you have the winter months to fix it ready for next year!

    Im surprised the turbo let go in the manner you describe. Would have thought that would be down to bad balancing /ingesting something unwanted/housing coming loose. Could always go for something cheaper and rebuildable like a T28 from a pulsar ? should still support hp in the 300+ region.
     
  15. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Thanks. Timing was as good as it could be really.
    Owen Developments will rebuild the turbo with a new core for 380 + VAT as long as the housing isn't damaged. Will see what it looks like when everything's apart.

    Video of the turbo dying. I tried to do a Nige and video the glowing manifold, but my camera placement was way off. You can just see the downpipe from 30s onwards.
    Turbo lets go at about 45s. Right at the end of the video, I start the engine, then switch it off, and you can hear the turbo spinning down as the blades touch the housing. You can also hear them at about 1:30s.
    [video=youtube_share;0zAZToFl23A]http://youtu.be/0zAZToFl23A[/video]
    Most of the rest of the noise is the rattly flywheel and gearbox.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  16. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    380 sounds like a deal to get back the same spec BB turbo.
    Keep us posted with how it goes. Next year we may have a few EU trips in the pipework ;)
     
  17. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    So the winter to do list has grown slightly! lol

    Winter Upgrades
    • Pull engine, refresh all seals, gaskets etc. Probably mains as well while it's apart.
    • Exhaust manifold - machine turbo mounting surface, replace M8 studs. Either with hardened bolts, or upgrade to M10 at the same time.
    • Fit oil pressure reducer to turbo. Maybe copy Gurd's oil feed solution
    • Fix turbo. Rebuild/replace/upgrade.
    • Fit AFR and EGT sensors/gauges
    • Fit proper oil pressure sender. VDO aren't accurate, and DTA can read a proper 3 wire sender. I have the sender, just need to fit it and wire it in.
    • Measure bump steer on front with current suspension set up
    • Remove and refit entire front suspension, replacing all bolts where possible. Check all rose joints for wear.
    • Add hole to suspension arm. Using wrong one on fixed suspension arm
    • Bonnet pins
    • Mount tablet to use DTADroid
    • Run DTA cable through bulkhead. Needs the cable chopping, feeding the cable through, and joining together again.
    • Sort out electric cut out switch wiring
    • Adjust brake pedal height, and add pedal covers to allow easy heel and toe.
    • Add extra rear silencer
    • Door cards from plastic
    • Create new cover for fuel pumps/lines where they are in the car. I'm not a fan of having those exposed when I'm in the car.
    Nice to at some point list:
    • Redo the in car fuel lines in Teflon fuel hose. Should lessen the fuel smell, as they are supposedly better than the rubber hoses I have now. Plus I keep stabbing myself on mine as they're old and frayed.
    • Fix dent from where wheel fell on the car, as well as a few other nicks.
    • See if it's possible to fit a Mk3 ARB to one of the camber bolts. Maybe use AST ARB attachment.
    • Replace fuel fillers. The current ones are for fast fill jerry cans used in endurance racing. PITA at petrol stations.
    • Sort fuel level gauge/sender.
    I've already found a lock up I can use. It will allow me to just leave the car on stands inside instead of having to keep it mobile, or on the drive.
    I'm going to try and find one a bit closer to home if possible.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2014
  18. Sirguydo

    Sirguydo Fastest milkman in the West Paid Member

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    Do you want some measurements off my moded hubs to see If getting some done would benefit ?
    Or you could borrow them for a bit to see if any differance:thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
    sparrow likes this.
  19. Jommanjo Forum Member

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    Those fuel fillers are achingly cool though ;):thumbup:
     
    sparrow likes this.
  20. sparrow Paid Member Paid Member

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    Thanks Mike, but I want to get the car sorted as it first. :thumbup:
     

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