SEAT Ibiza AQX/AYP 20v -> CE2 + general fusebox plug reference guide

Discussion in '1.8 & 1.8T' started by rubjonny, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    Hello all, since this has been asked a few times now I'll paste in the details I have noted down on these looms. It's only got CE2 splicing info for the main ecu plugs currently, but you should be able to work out CE1 splicing from my other OEM MK4->MK1/2/3 guide here:
    https://clubgti.com/forums/index.php?threads/267196

    Engine loom plugs:
    T28 - big round plug on sensor loom:
    1 - crank sensor pin 3 - ECU pin 82
    2 - crank sensor pin 1 - ECU pin 108
    3 - fuel injector #4 pin 2 - ECU pin 88
    4 - fuel injector #2 pin 2 - ECU pin 89
    5 - crank sensor pin 2 - ECU pin 90
    6 - oil pressure switch - G2/10 or G2/11, or ignore and run own wires for pressure switches
    7 - coilpack #4 pin 3 - ECU pin 94
    8 - coilpack earths - battery negative
    9 - coilpack #2 pin 3 - ECU pin 95
    10 - fuel injector #1 pin 2 - ECU pin 96
    11 - fuel injector #3 pin 2 - ECU pin 97
    12 - knock sensor 2 pin 3 - ECU pin 108
    13 - knock sensor 1 pin 2 - ECU pin 99
    14 - coilpack #1 pin 3 - ECU pin 102
    15 - coilpack #3 pin 3 - ECU pin 103
    16 - knock sensor 1 pin 3 - ECU pin 108
    17 - coil live feed - see ecu relay notes
    18 - knock sensor 2 pin 1 - ECU pin 106
    19 - knock sensor 1 pin 1 - ECU pin 107
    20 - ECU sensor earth - ECU pin 108
    21 - throttle body pin 6 - ECU pin 91
    22 - throttle body pin 5 - ECU pin 118
    23 - throttle body pin 4 - ECU pin 84
    24 - throttle body pin 3 - ECU pin 117
    25 - throttle body pin 2 - ECU pin 83
    26 - fuel injectors pin 1 - Z/1
    27 - throttle body pin 1 - ECU pin 92
    28 - N249 pin 2 - ECU pin 9

    T14a - smaller 14 pin plug on sensor loom:
    1 - fuel pump power for engine loom - G1/8
    2 - N112 valve pin 2 - ECU pin 105
    3 - N75 pin 2 - ECU pin 104
    4 - cam sensor pin 2 - ECU pin 86
    5 - ECU temp sender - ECU pin 93
    6 - dash temp sender - G2/3 (see coolant sensor notes)
    7 - PAS switch pin 1 - ECU pin 49
    8 - PAS switch pin 2 - ECU pin 50
    9 - earth for dash temp sender - earth to head or battery negative
    10 - speedo sensor pin 1 - G2/4 if using
    11 - speedo sensor pin 2 - G1/11 if using
    12 - speedo sensor pin 3 - earth if using
    13 - inlet temp sensor pin 1 - ECU pin 85
    14 - cam sensor pin 1 - ECU pin 98


    #############################################################
    Internal wiring loom plugs:

    T5g brown:
    1 - blk/yel- ECU pin 41 - bin (radiator fan control unit pin T14b/2)
    2 - grn/blk - ECU pin 40 - bin (aircon)
    3 - pur/wht - ECU pin 41 - bin (radiator fan control unit pin T14b/3)
    4 - gry/red - ECU pin 37 - G1/12, via tacho adaptor if mk2 (clocks pin T32/11, rev counter)

    T5q:
    2 - org/blk - can-bus high - bin (abs ECU)
    3 - org/brn - can-bus low - bin (abs ECU)

    T6f: (fuel pump relay, on relay plate)
    1 - blk - bin (fuel relay main live from battery)
    2 - red/blk - bin (fuel relay power to T10h for internal car fuses)
    3 - blk/grn - bin (fuel relay ignition live)
    5 - grn/wht - ECU pin 65 - G1/3 (fuel relay trigger)

    T6h: (SAI relay, on relay plate)
    1 - blk - bin (SAI relay main live from battery)
    2 - red/blk - bin (power feed to SAI pump)
    3 - red/yel - bin (pump power feed)
    4 - grn/brn - ECU pin 66 - bin (SAI relay trigger)

    T10d black:
    1 - red/black - bin or swap to your loom (starter motor)

    T10e white:
    10 - gry/grn - ECU pin 43 - to vagcom diagnostics port pin 7 (clocks pin T32a/28, diagnostics)

    T10f brown:
    3 - pur - ECU pin 81 - to clocks if mk3 or newer, or bin (clocks pin T32a/1, mpg signal)
    6 - blk/blu - ECU pin 30 - bin (clocks pin T32a/23 ???)
    9 - wht/blu - speedometer sender - G1/11 if using, or bin
    10 - wht/yel - ECU pin 54 - W/1 (VSS feed from clocks)

    T10g green:
    2 - yel - T26/6 - G2/10 or G2/11, or ignore and run own wires for pressure switches (oil pressure switch)
    3 - grn/blk - ECU pin 37 (clocks pin T32/11, rev counter)
    4 - red/blk - ECU pin 56 - tap to brake light switch red/black if using brake switch, or bin (brake lights ON)
    6 - brn - coolant temp sensor earth (dash sensor common ground)
    7 - red/yel - various engine electrics - G1/8 (fuel relay live, fuse 8)
    8 - blk - T10g/9 - bin (ignition live, from ignition switch)
    9 - blk - fuse 3 input - bin (ignition live, from ignition switch)
    10 - blk/red - clutch & brake switches, speedometer sender - G2/4 if using any of these, or bin (ignition live, fuse 3)

    T10h purple:
    1 - grn/wht - ECU pin 48 - bin (clocks pin T32/13, EPC fault lamp)
    2 - blk/yel - fuel relay - bin (ignition live, fuse 1)
    4 - red/blk - bin (fuel relay power to internal car fuses)
    5 - blk/grn - ECU pin 3 & T10h/7 - see ECU relay notes (ECU power, fuse 1)
    7 - blk/wht - crash cut-off relay - bin (ignition live, fuse 1)
    8 - red/wht - ECU pin 62 - G2/9 or Y spade (permanent live, fuse 2)
    10 - red/grn - ECU pin 47 - bin (clocks pin T32/32, emissions fault lamp)

    T10i red:
    3 - brn/wht - brake light switch - tap brake light switch red/yellow if using brake switch, or bin (permanent live, fuse 20)
    8 - blk/grn - T28/17 - see ECU relay notes (coilpack power, fuse 4)
    9 - blu/yel - coolant temp sensor - G2/3
    10 - blu - alternator pin D+ - tap to your old alternator blue wire


    Coolant temp sensor notes:
    The MK4 type 4 pin coolant temp sensor will not work correctly with MK1/2/3 clocks, but there are a few ways round this:
    1. Fit a 39ohm resistor (33ohm previously suggested, but have reports that 39 works better) inline with the T14a plug pin 6 wire. I've heard mixed results from this, some say all is well but the time I tried it the gauge didn't work at all till it was removed :lol:

    2. Fit a MK3 golf 1.8-2.0 8v 4 pin coolant temp sensor part number 357919501A or 6U0919501B, splicing the matching plug part number 357919754 to suit if necessary. This is my personal choice it works fine with the MK4 ECU and MK1/2/3 dash no resistors are required! However if you need to splice the early plug onto a late loom the pin numbers differ.

    MK3 sensor pins:
    1 - brn/blu - ECU sensor earth
    2 - brn - dash sensor earth
    3 - blu - ECU sensor feed
    4 - yel/red - dash sensor feed

    SEAT sensor pins:
    1 - blu/yel - dash sensor feed
    2 - brn - dash sensor earth
    3 - blu - ECU sensor feed
    4 - brn - ECU sensor earth

    3. Fit a MK4 upper rad hose with sensor fitting 1J0121087 and add a MK2 golf 2 pin black coolant temp sensor, splice MK1/2/3 dash feed to one of the pins and earth the other pin:
    DSC00604.jpg

    ECU relay notes:
    To be safe I would recommend you power the ECU and coilpacks from a relay and fuse. Ideally mount your ECU relay & fuse above the fusebox with nice clip on relay holders pinched from VW/SEAT in the scrappy, or buy new ones from VW using the part numbers below. I would run a 15a fuse inline with the power input to pin 30, the DBW looms are prone to cracking up on the coilpack wiring so best bet to be 100% safe. You may as well pop the ECU pin 62 permanent live from T10h/8 in with the relay perm live, put it after the fuse so its also protected.

    ECU/coilpack relay wiring:
    30 - permanent live - Y spade via 15a fuse
    85 - earth
    86 - ignition live - G1/4, G2/4 or D/8, 9 or 11
    87 - power to ECU & coilpacks

    MK4 Diagnostics port wiring:
    1 - black/blue - ignition live
    4 - brown - earth
    5 - brown - earth
    6 - orange/black - CAN BUS high
    7 - grey/white - Diagnostics K line
    14 - orange/brown - CAN BUS low
    16 - red/white - permanent live

    Note all you need for basic diagnostics with VAG-COM/VCDS is live, earth and K line wires to pins 16, 4 and 7 though.

    VW Fuse and relay holder part numbers:
    161937501/1H0937530 - fuse holder - 2.94+VAT
    161937501b - relay holder for 6.3mm spades (i.e. most switched relays) - 5.39+VAT
    867937501 - relay holder for 9.53mm spades (i.e. fuel pump and glow plug relays) - 4.11+VAT
    357937501 - double relay holder for 6.3mm spades - 4.89+VAT
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  2. Ingmar46 New Member

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    Thanks a lot for the above rubjonny!

    Is it ok to bin the white connector as it doesn't have a purpose in the golf mk2 clocks?

    T10e white:
    10 - gry/grn - ECU pin 43 - to vagcom port (clocks pin T32a/28, diagnostics)
     
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  3. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    Thats your diagnostics wire so you want that, 'to vagcom port'. You want to put it to pin 7, will update the post to make this a little more clear :) Then give the port pin 4 earth and pin 16 live then its sorted :)

    in brackets I'm just showing its original location, in case its useful for anyone diagnosing a 20v still actually installed in its original donor car for a change :lol:
     
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  4. Ingmar46 New Member

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    Okay thanks for the reply.

    I had the following pin for the diagnostic line:

    T10j pink
    7 - gr - OBD K line to T16/7 to T25/7

    But I guess thats the diagnostic line for the ABS unit then?
     
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  5. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    I've got the grey wirte from ABS control unit pin 7 thru T10j/2, then vagcom port? But yes that wire is the ABS unit diagnostics wire so you dont need that unless you plan to install the ABS system. If you do, put both that pin and ecu pin 43 to the vagcom port pin 7.

    If you want an OEM way grab yourself a MK3 Golf port and diagnostics jumper block, then you splice the mk3 jumper lines to the ecu and abs wires, that way you can build your ecu loom seperate to the abs loom same as VW did for MK2/3 golf :)
     
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  6. Ingmar46 New Member

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    Hmm, maybe need to re-check the T10j connector in Elsawin when I'm home. I have spotted a few differences before in wire colors, maybe becuase it's a left hand drive?

    I'm indeed installing the ABS system from the Ibiza so thanks for that! I assume you mean the port and block from the below photo right? Do you have the part numbers by any chance? I've been searching in ETKA in the ABS and Engine bay wiring loom but cant find it...

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    thats the one yep, sort of thing I'd pinch out of a mk3 in a scrapyard, post-96 all have these.

    part number for this is 1H0972559A, and you want 1h0972791a or 1h0972701 for the jumper plugs with micro timer pins :)
     
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  8. Ingmar46 New Member

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    I would like to install the Electric coolant pump (additional cooling never hurts is my idea). Can I simply add the positive and negative for this electric coolant pump to Relay 13: Radiator cooling fan after run, Starter interlock relay? Does anyone know what is the time setting on this Relay 13 (with no 31 written on top)? Part no. 191 955 532A. I also have a time relay with t=1 minute laying around, so could also choose to add that one to the fuse box.

    Also, for the ABS module I need to tap into a positive and negative in the fusebox. I dont like to run wires from the battery with the AYP fuse holder on top of the battery (melted partly away). Any idea which pins/connector is suitable for this as the wires for the ABS module are quite thick, my assumption is that the module requires quite some current.


    To confirm:
    in order to use the AYP reverse Switch to CE2 fusebox:

    T10f/01 black/purple has to go to F/06
    T10g/05 black/grey has to go to F/07

    and for the brake light switch:

    T10g/04 brown/white to E/04 (or E/03 or K/04?)
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
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  9. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    the 31 relay will only work if its triggered by a thermoswitch on the engine somewhere so you'll have to add that. probably easier to add a basic timer relay, this is what Audi A3 used

    run the ABS module direct to the battery, this is what MK3/Corrado/MK4 golf do. If you dont want to use a mk4 style battery fusebox fit some inline fuses on the ABS pump wiring and attach direct to the battery terminal. Go on a scrappy hunt and find a MK3 golf then nick its battery cables, much better terminal design than mk2. At the fusebox side its the Y spades you're lookign at for lives, but since even the mk3/corrado didnt run the ABS from there I wouldnt advise it.

    reverse switch wiring is correct.

    with brake switch you can tap it to the mk2 switch red/black on E/3 or use W/4. But only do this if you're wiring in both ECU brake switch wires to a 4 pin brake light switch from ibiza/mk4/etc, otherwise leave this disconnected and short the cruise switch white/yellow wire to ECU pin 55 to ignition live so ECU doesn't get confused with a brake pedal switch miss-matched state.
     
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  10. Ingmar46 New Member

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    Thanks again for your quick reply rubjonny! Much appreciated.

    Another question regarding the ABS unit; I've sourced a Golf Mk2 E-brake light with ABS warning light. In order to get the warning light in the MK2 unit working like in the Ibiza dash (K47), do I need to connect the following:

    T10j/08 green/red - to CE2 W/02?
    and
    T10j/01 black/white (has to go to ignition live)- to CE2 W/03 (main fusebox starter power)?
    and
    T10j/10 black/green (TCS warning light) - as far as I know there are no TCS warning lights for a Golf Mk2 so I might modify an emergency light switch.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  11. Ingmar46 New Member

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    Finally got my hands on the MK3 Golf port and diagnostics jumper block! Did you by any chance had a look at the questions I had above?
    Also, i couldn't find a 109 relay for the ECU relay at the scrapyard. Will a 1 relay (171906383), a 100 relay or a 167 relay also work?

    For the fuse for the power input to pin 30 of the ecu relay, i found a nice bracket on top of the AYP fusebox. which plugs on the CE2 fusebox, like the relay holder, but it comes with a 20amp (443 937 105) thermal fuse. Is this okay to use or should i swap it for a 'regular' 15amp fuse?
     
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  12. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    sorry I didnt reply to your earlier post I missed it somehow. looked at the ABS diagram and fleshed out the T10j plug:
    1 - blk/wht - TCS/ESP button pin 6 (x-relay live, fuse 18)
    2 - gry/wht - ABS unit pin 39 (diagnostics k-line)
    8 - gry/red - ABS unit pin 22 (ABS warning light?)
    10 - gry/grn - TCS/ESP button pin 1 (ABS unit pin 24, Cluster pin T32a/19)

    so yeah T10J pin 1 to W/3. pin 8 you could use W/2 then pick up the feed on X/8 to your warning light wiring. pin 10 you coudl run to your own light somewhere or to W/5 -> X/7 or W/6 -> X/5 and add your own bulb to the MK2 warning light bar

    you need a 109 relay if you want to put an ECU triggered relay in slot 3, these are not too expensive new from ebay/vw or whatever as MK4 still use them in the diesel engines. If you want to put an ecu triggered relay in a relay holder somewhere else then you can use pretty much any 4 pin relay you like, just loop the 30 and 15 pins to live 98 is your output and pin 85 to the ecu trigger. this is how MK4 AUM/AUQ/R32/etc 428 ECU are wired from the factory :)

    I dont see why you couldn't use a 20a thermal fuse so long as your wiring is rated above 20a, if in doubt swap a normal 15a fuse in it. The terminals in the fuse holder are the same as used in normal fuse holders so if you get hold of a normal one later on down the line you can swap it right over
     
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  13. Ingmar46 New Member

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    No problem, thanks for answering anyway! Got it sorted now. Im using:

    T10/j 1 to W/3
    2 to OBD 7 (with jumper block)
    8 to W/2 to x/08 (to ABS warning light 191 919 235 k) see pic below
    10 to Ibiza TCS button 3 (illumination L71)

    [​IMG]

    Im still a bit confused about the ECU relay. In your manual "OEM MK4 management wiring => Mk1/2/3 harness install FAQ" (one of the best and detailed post out there btw) you write: I wouldn't recommend you use the factory socket on a CE2 fusebox, it is unlikely to be able to take the load.

    For this option in slot 3 a 109 relay is used then? Following your advise I'll place the ECU Relay on top of the CE2 fusebox, with a 167 relay. With a 15 amp fuse inbetween spade Y and pin 30. And after the fuse, before pin 30 I add T10h/8 ECU permanent live.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
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  14. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    yes thats right, in the long term I wouldn't want to risk running a set of 4 coilpacks and ecu power from G1/10 as we have no data to tell us what kind of load this pin can take, plus on the DBW MK4 this feed comes into the sensor loom using a larger standard timer pin so this suggests VW didnt think junior/power timer were man enough. You could use the ECU relay socket for just your ECU power/switched live pin no problem, just use a 30 relay for that.

    if you mount above the fusebox you can use a 109 relay or any 4 terminal switched relay whatever works for you. just be aware that the 17, 18, 100, 428, 67, 80 & 167 relay have larger terminals on the live and output pins so you need a different kind of relay socket vs if you use a 109 or 53 relay
     
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  15. Ingmar46 New Member

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    Thanks again rubjonny, got it al sorted now. See pics below for final result, maybe it will help others as well :)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Another question: On the relay 31 there's a pin 'T', which from the original engine came from the carb. Is this just an earth/ground wire?
     
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  16. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    and not a solder joint to be seen, lovely :thumbup:

    the 31 relay is for rad fan after-run, the T wire went off to a thermo switch on the carb. If you get hold of a suitable thermoswitch you could re-purpose it as a turbo timer if you like
     
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  17. Ingmar46 New Member

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    Thanks, It's a bit fiddling sometimes to get the micro/junior timer pins out, but I like the OEM look [:D]

    If I look at the diagram does relay 31 switch when pin 'T' and pin '31' (ignition live and thermo switch above 110 degrees C) are under current? Or if either of them are under current? If the latter is the case I'll swap the relay 31 for the 1 minute timer delay relay, and add the electric coolant pump to that circuit as per below sketch. But I guess this means the electric coolant pump would also run while the rad fans turn on during driving. For instance during traffic, but I guess that doesn't do harm. I cant find the internal wiring diagram of the J293 - Rad fan control unit of the Ibiza engine, so I can't check how the V51- coolant pump gets engaged normally...

    Would it make sense to swap the first stage thermo switch to a 85 C degrees one so the engine cools longer down after ignition shut off? Or does this means that the engine doesnt reach its operating temperature of 90 C degrees at all?

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Admin

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    31 switches on the fan when the ignition is off, if the thermoswitch switches to earth :)

    the mk2 yellow collar one listed as 100 degrees, not sure what temp to switch it off, maybe its printed on the side? theres a blue collar one for G60 which is 90 degrees.

    so if need be you swap the thermoswitch for one which matches your needs and fit it where is appropriate. the red/white wire from relay pin 87 hangs around near the radiator fan, its a spade connection which plughs into the fan loom. so you simply unplug that, and run it to your coolant pump and give the pump earth. or leave it plugged in and tap the electric pump to the red/white wire if you want fan and pump together. this means the pump will run when the fan is triggered by the radiator thermoswitch, you could put a diode between the thermoswitch and the pump wire to stop that.

    changing fan thermoswitch will mean the fan comes on a bit earlier than it should, but as long as the thermostat is ok it wont affect engine cooling. the problem with using this for your turbo timer is it will only work when the thermostat is open
     
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