So this horlicks about SORN-ing where the insurance expires, even for short periods

... which forces you to surrender the tax too.

(that ^^ being the issue, not the principle of SORNing)

... yep, it's true, the tax disc has to be submitted, meaning when swapping cars over you need to sell one pronto or have two insurances or trade insurance.

(can't find the original thread)




The insurance industry will milk this, as if they're helping us out, just watch them

 

kinda makes sense, it's forcing the car owner to be a bit more organised -not a bad thing IMO. If you're not insuring the car, you can't drive it so why not SORN it? - it's not like the tax disc is allowing you to drive it, is it? You might even get a few quid back on the remains of the tax..

Can't see it having much to do with the insurance co's to be honest.

 

Just the DVLA making more money from honest motorists I'm afraid Chris.

 

Doesn't make any difference to those who choose to drive around with no mot, insurance or tax.

Will just penalise those honest drivers who just forget because the system has quietly changed to be even more of a PITA.

 

Hit the nail on the head.

 

This is all just a load of absolute SHEIT.
There are already regulations and laws in place with regard to the use of cars and duty payable through road tax.
The fact that these new fines are coming out shows a presumption of guilt. It also suggest that the DVLA will get paid twice for the road tax for the same month when the sale of a car happens too.

Do we now also need to fill in a "statutory notice that I am not murdering anyone", or a "statutory notice that I am not importing tonnes of cocaine", or a "statutory notice that I am not involved the importation of illegal immigrants"?

 

Why not?

Are you doing any/all of those things?

I happen to know that you have recently imported an Englishman from Skye and are keeping him as a sex slave

 

No, I am not doing any of those things, in the same way I am not using a car without valid tax or insurance. If I am going to be presumed guilty and fined for the assumption I am using a car, where is the difference from presuming I am breaking every other law of the land?

That recent import was returned, turns out it was the wrong gender.

 

Hi Chris,

Back in the day the Motor Insurance Database was an initiative born as result of our compliance with an EU directive in reducing the proportion of uninsured drivers.

I think the intention that the government had in doing this was to go one step further, enabling the DVLA and MID to work together to reduce uninsured vehicles being used upon the road.

DVLA can tell if a vehicle is Insured and will write where a vehicle is uninsured and not under a sorn declaration.

Police traffic vehicles are also fitted with ANPR readers which automatically check the registration number of vehicles that are driven without MOT or Insurance, enabling the police to intervene.

If they can get the uninsured drivers either off the road, or to chip into the Motor Insurance Bureau fund (which all UK Motor Insurers are obliged to contribute to) in order to meet claims for innocent parties who have suffered damage or injury as a result of the actions of an uninsured motorist. The Insurance media quote this will reduce everyone's premium by around 15%.

I have a similar view to you in this regard though, as this is looking like it will be a hassle to the honest motorist who keeps their vehicle off the road for even a few weeks.

There are limited mileage policies that offer a decent concession, classic and custom car policies are a competitive option for the low mileage 2nd car Mk1/Mk2 models.

Kind regards

Tony

 

This is absolutely to the point.


By way of real example, quoted elsewhere previously, my moped insurance ran out earlier this year. CBT had run out too, so I couldn't insure it and the next CBT avail was 2 weeks after. I was going on holiday and I was busy, and moped road tax costs a paltry 15. No point in SORN-ing then according to the world of logic, which has sadly now departed us.

Through lack of explicit confirmation, I am thus a deemed insurance offender (murderer, drug dealer etc), and am required to behave like a programmed computer to avoid this, knowing that an illogical statement over-rides a logical one.

As the moped was off the road, and as I am an adult, that IMO is all I need to do. Leave it off the road until it can be ridden under insurance.


I do the same with my track car where relevant. If I find my insurance company - HIC - are taking the p*ss, trying to auto-reinsure and take money off my card without my say so, then the insurance is allowed - by ME - to expire until I source an alternate insurer. The car doesn't go on the road, because I'm an adult, and it's not insured for the road, but will be on the road soon.

"NO, NO, NO" according to the DVLA. I must cancel the tax, and then re-tax for 6 or 12 months, whether it be 15 or 200-odd of tax.

This is stuff that inconveniences people on a grand scale. The DVLA/Police seems to think we're all able to comprehend this, all able to drive at exactly the speed limit and administrate our vehicles in a way that makes the micro chip jealous.

When are the rulemakers going to realise this is totally ridiculous?

 

I've just admitted defeat and insured and taxed my 3 golfs........ I got fined last time for being human and forgetting the sorn for 2 weeks, I didn't even get a reminder after I had sorned it the year before.

It's just all stupid, stupid DVLA, stupid bureaucratic nonsense which is fecking everyone off. What honestly next are they going to enforce.....stupid, stupid, stupid oh and did I say stupid!

 

I think people are making a wrong assumption: that our 'betters' have thought this through and decided we should be kept in line. I see it as utter incompetence, rather than 'intelligent design'. A simple 'walk-through' of the new process would have shown up the holes in this one.

 

I feel like its just another revenue collecting device tbh,theyre still trying to collect on a sorn fine from me despite resending every letter theyve sent me advising them that i sold the car theyre hunting me for and that the V5 was sent as per....5 corespondences later and I get a letter from a debt collection agency

thanks for that dvla....

and insurance companies............yeah,you can get our premiums reduced by 15% through this scheme but the 40% my premium increased in the last year alone despite running a total of 9 years without a claim still leaves me feeling like a bent over member of the constituency thats found a pound coin after losing a twenty pound note. Insurance has always been a goverment approved scam where you wheedle out off any legitimate claim however you can but charge whatever you like and claim that its down to the 'yoofs' and vagrants driving about uninsured.....

What about recompensing drivers that have never made a claim in X amount of years that have shelled out 10K + in premiums for the appearance of legitamacy with the knowledge your going to lowball them an offer if something unforeseen happens?

thanks,Im not bitter,im just feeling raped from my existing premiums....

 

Lets face it we're being raped for just owning a car, if it was up to the government none of us would own a car and we'd all be riding bicycles.....


Still we could be living in Denmark who now have a tax on fatty foods ffs Milk and butter have gone up loads...crazy times we live in.

 

own a car :-

fuel duty....increased in line with random fuel prices as averaged by crude global increases(seperate from any known worldwide price per barrel increase - not liable to drop proportianately without excessive delay that will not transfer to pump prices in the slightest

garage duty....its your duty to uphold your resale and as such lie down to average dealer prices or fore-go any hope at re-couping any re-sale value as whatever anyone says an independant FSH isnt the same as a FDSH....

insurance.....pay it....dont claim it.....pay it again....pay more to offset claims/counter claims and fake claims and corporate bonus',dont claim...pay more again.....

road tax - pay more,pay more,pay more,pay more,pay more......suffer degenerating road conditions.....pay more....

insurance - you have to have it,you have to pay it,you can shop about but you will probably not understand the reasoning behind their yearly profits in relation to the increases they say are 'industry averages'

 

But in reality it will have very little effect on uninsured drivers due to the fact that a considerable proprtion of uninsured cars are not actually registered to anybody traceable, ANPR is ok insofar as it may lead to uninsured cars getting seized and taken off the roads but they are quickly replaced with another one.

The drivers are often disqualified already and don't bother to turn up at court when they are caught nor do they pay any fines imposed in their absence

 

Exactly! In all my time served everytime I came across a dodgy car guess what? It was never registered to the disqualified person driving it........

 

That is an interesting point and not too disimilar to the offence of refusing a breat test.

Under UK law you do not need to prove that you didn't commit an offence (presumption of innocence) nor do you have to do anything to assist in proving that you did so, on that basis why should you have to provide a breath test as the only reasons for doing so are to prove that aren't over the limit or to hepl the police prove that you are?

 

All you need to do is quote the Intrepretaions act 1978, section 7 I think is the relavent part. What it means is by posting notification you ahve fullfiled your obligations to SORN. Thanks to the basic 'innocent till proven guilty' they will have to proove you did not (Which mean you do not have to proove you did).

put that in your next letter.. they then grovel and say sorry.

Yep SORN is not only a PITA but unenforcable. However the alteration recently that any un taxd car that is not on SORN must be insured is also a total waste of time, as all you do is say 'I SORNEd it by post', then quote the above

Its about time they sorted it out properly and just scrapped road tax and raised fuel tax. ANPR allied to the MID means there is no argument for keeping it

 

The last two posts are very enlightening.