Split: how they got > 200bhp + on a single plenum 16v

The engine was mounted in a golf 3,that had run in belgian procar
The car was sold in januari
The new owner wanted a dynotest , so we did just 2 dynoruns.
The first was to rich between 5000 and 6250 but gave the topend
A second run with a leaner mixture gave the result till 6250 with max 206,7 ps @ 6182 rpm
With the proper mapping you would see the result as listed in my post 209,2 ps @237km/h
The engine was run on the rollers @ www.autotuneheinz.be
16/01/2010 , temp was 11 C , 966mbar
its a proper build engine very similar to the grA 220 hp engines.
The cams are setup to have high cilinder pressure , but the result is that max power is too low in the rev range
There basicly nothing exotic in this engine
Fully balanced, lw flyweel, narrow valve Seats, schrick cams ,springs,etc
Low friction assembly, std rods reworked, crank as std, grA 4-2-1

 

QED 2.0 red top Opel / vauxhall
@ 4000/ 5000/ 6000 / 7000 / 8000
113/141/191/213/212 on carbs 48 dcoe
115/143/196/223/228 44mm slide trottle 260mm o/length
110/139/188/218/227 45 mm tapered single Jenvey`s 220mm
114/142/193/220/228 + long 250mm
115/149/196/221/226 48mm dcoe type TBs 235mm
112/161/191/219/213 + long 265mm

 

Good parts and a good curve, but your measurement quantity I doubt for this spec of engine, just me though.

 

The car was used the last years for trackdays.
Before that many endurance races, including 24H
Laptime Spa Francorchamps 2,55 MIN
With only 7000 rpm its bulletproof , even missing a gear
The engine ran on a digifant /G60 ecu with the DTC program
C.R is higher than 11.5/1
No Cat /lambda is used , only 1 silencer
This is not the result from a 1off enginebuild , but racing years with the same engines
ABF /9A AND components and making small changes.
You can make changes to move the powerband up but at the cost of losing TQ down.
There is IMO to much value weight towards topend power , on a circuit / rally you spend most time accerating out off corners.
In the end its laptime that counts

Maybe the grA 218 hp would make about the same 208 hp at 6500 rpm ?
but is 1000 + rpm later on the cam
The choice to make is going for Topend OR lose 10hp topend and gain below so much more
HP sell engines ,TQ wins races


There seems to be some believe that with the std inlet manifold /TB that about 220 ps is about the maximum achieveable. The grA need to keep within the dimensions/weight on the homologation sheet.
IMO with more C.R , lift , bigger valves, 84x90 bore stroke , LW parts, etc .more is possible

S 2000 engines make about 280hp in rally trim (IRC) and close to 300 hp in WTCC
on a single TB,about the same size, but with a larger plenum

 

Interesting discussion - were the GpA engines 1.8 or 2.0? That might get part of the way towards explaining the extra torques, not to mention the Kjet that I *think* the GpA engines ran with.

 

2.0 ABF grA as used in Golf 3

VWM specs
92.8 /82.5
C.R 11.5 /1
234 NM
163 KW /222 PS
max rpm 8100
Vw digifant ecu

 

GpA 222PS ABF ran on EFI. Torque was 173lbft peak.

 

F20 engine is a different engine concept to an older fixed cam vw engine. These engines can spin the torque much higher hence the higher measurement.

 

OK, back on topic…since # 68 on page 3

The VWM grA engines need to be built within the restrictions off the regulations
I am aware that 247 NM @ 5436 RPM is a lot off TQ, i was surpriced too
dyno accuracy is always a bit an unknown factor …but i think its not too far off eather
I agree, it was cold and also about the air pressure ,
202,7 PS were measured before correction / 209,2 PS corrected ( +3,2 % )
I cant proof its true or not ….i have only a dyno sheet , but that doesnt tell you the engine specs...
People have to decide what they believe or not

some TQ numbers from engines with 82,5 X 92,8 bore/ stroke ( or near )

- A std 2,0 FSI engine makes 200 NM / 3500 rpm ( 188 NM /2000 RPM )
This has likely to do with direct injection

- F3 engines 250-270 NM / 4950 -5400 RPM
All engines rated 210 PS , its a public secret that about 220 PS is the norm for the top engines
www.formel3.de
These engines have to breath trough a 26 mm air restrictor ( 530 sq mm )

ABF 65 mm TB ( 3316 sq mm )


About the F20 engine
Its a better engine to start with, better head, pentroof , a bit bigger valves, etc
And a LOT easier to get serious power from, thats right.

The older single cam VW engine was a good basis , advanced at the time
and still today VW build on that

 

Main thing is regardless of this discussion about actual torque quantity and dyno deltas, the car does what the owner wants. And the your plot looks 'healthy' as it shows 83% of max torque is made from 3500rpm as well at 7000rpm. So a 3500rpm range with it becoming greater in the middle somewhere.

Port shapes, very good combustion chamber, 11.5:1 compression, pistons that encorage swirl from wall guided injectors and yes direct injection concept all play a part to that result

And twin independant variable cam timing with lift.
You would find many Japanese engines very similar to this design ( a least 45 deg cant between valves) some without the variable cam timing and lift concept such as the 18R-G, 2T-G, 4AGE 16v and 20v i-vvt, 3SGE i-vvt, 4G92 Mivec, SR16VE, SR20DE, H22A, F20A, B16A, B18C, K20A. Some of these production engines have been around since 1980 with the heads developed by Yamaha. The japs have been at this a very long time.

 

does direct injection save you from det problems, allowing much more agressive timing?

 

All tech discusson now moved to this thread

 

There are mentions of a VWMS inlet plenum somewhere on the tinternet too. Special parts?

Gurds

 

With the potential for confusion on this one, nomenclature (Group N, A, kitcar, WRC etc etc)

... just to clarify the spec of a works 220bhp ABF Group A engine:

Standard plenum (barring what we know about porting / special castings)
Standard rods, 159mm (assume balanced, shot peened, cryogenics - anything could have happened)
Forged high compression pistons, best guess would be Mahle
High lift cams
Injectors: assume bigger if reqd
Buckets: would need HPR to confirm if solid lifters or not
Standard valve sizes. Assume seats were profiled
Standard bore
Standard crank
Standard crank trigger wheel + sensor
Dimensions of the ports, in & out: standard I believe
Porting, internal opening out & shaping: yes
ECU: OEM Bosch ECU, custom map. There is the potential for dumbing down knock sensors in this!

These were not kitcar engines, or even close, and date circa pre-1997, after which the reins were removed, full house steel kitcar motors ensued and the costs rocketed, as everything became bespoke.

In that sense, a Group A engine is achieveable by scrapping the Bosch ECU, optimising on aftermarket system, getting some high compression pistons in, and adding cams and porting to suit. I suppose this is the challenge to all those starting to look hard at these engines, what is still 'relatively' cheap tuning given the base parts are had for very little, availabilty of pistons, injectors etc.

 

Also worth noting that the Mk2 Golf KR/PL Group A FWD engines were built to the same Group A logic, very standard *looking*. They are still 1.8 litre.

This is a 1987 works Mk2 KR or PL:



Oil separator across front of inlet mani, Mk1-style gearbox mount, twin throttle cables, Mk1 GTI oil cooler take off, large alternator pulley...

The only data I have, is that the 1986 Group A KR/PL was rated at 191bhp / 148lb/ft.

As seen in the works engines table here

 

148lbft is a lot for little 1.8 NASP.

 

The source of that data is the VW Motorsport manual - the best (or worst) I have, depending on the agenda behind the number. Caveats here apply.

Just to put this in old money:

219 bhp
173 lb/ft

 

And just thinking about this a tad more, the Tuner 16vs here..

• Max from an 1800 was ~160bhp
  
• Max from a 2000 was ~182 bhp (ignore the > 2.0l)

Certainly puts Essthree's achievements into context ... (though some of those tuner packages will be K-jet not VW Digifant).

Note very moderate compressions on the Tuner packages. HPR has confirmed earlier the Group A engines were 11.5:1.

Is anyone up for the challenge of buidling a high compression single plenum ABF on an aftermarket ECU?

 

Another thought: can anyone see any features in that K-jet Mk2 engine bay which suggests it's running KE-Jetronic / CIS-E? (ie a PL motor).

 

You wan't to fund the pistons

I am thinking along the lines of compression and cams on mine on the plenum.

Gurds