** VR6 Head Gasket Problems - Update ... Skimmed head & Soft GSF Bolts !!!! **

did you take the head off in bolt sequence as its good practive to do so

if not then id be getting a head skimmed or it will need doing again in a few weeks

 

Well in the Bentley Bible it said nothing about taking the bolts off in sequence ? I worked from the outside inwards. But the new ones have been put on in the correct sequence

I didn't check the valve stem seals especially after 6 hours of cleaning. The head can last the next year or so then I'll get a 'Man in the Shed' flowed jobby.

As for timing, well it is set to TDC perfectly and the camshafts are locked in place with the timing plate. I didn;t mark the chains as they were covered in oil. It is just a question of where the slack in the chain is set. As I only have one cam sprocket off, I have to get the slack for the chain near the tensioner, but it is between the sprockets. Hence when you crank the engine it jumps . So I have to take both sprockets off and readjust where the slack is (that's what it says in the Bentley). Problem is the other sprocket is as tight as anything and refuses to come off ! Way tighter that 100Nm !!!

But I'll get stuck in tomorrow early and it will come off ! A night of WD-40 and fingers crossed !

 

really good progress. is it clear which cylinder/s had the leak?

 

Good news ... head back on ... engine back together, oil in .... coolant in. The big moment, turned the key to crank it (with fuel pump fuse out + depressurised) and perfect. Then fuel pump primed, turned key and ..... perfect start ! <PHEW> Stressed or what ?

So after 5 hours yesterday stressing what to do as I thought I had messed the timing up. 2 hours before that in the morning trying to get the cam sproket off of the long cam shaft. Then another hour in the afternoon doing the same thing (it must be welded on !). I realised that TDC on the flywheel was out a fraction. I set TDC on the crankshaft wheel and it showed the flywheel was out by about 5mm -ish Having messed around with that for ages I realised that the intermediate shaft had not jumped out of alignment Duh what an idiot looking at the flywheel and thinking OMG I have screwed the timing on the chains. Was thinking oh gee whizz I'm going to have to bleed clutch, disconnect gear linkage, take gearbox off take flywheel off and reset timing with the bottom chain. But after leaving it for hours and coming back to it, that helped and saved me loads of hastle (needlessly too). Note to self the timing is fine !

So everything seems to be running fine. There is one noisey tappet at about 3000 rpm ..... most probably lack of oil while the head has been off. But I do have a bit of smoke coming from the rear by the exhaust manifold Perhaps it's some oil buring off of the block but don't want to take any chances. I'll take the manifold off and investage later.

I'll post some more pics a bit later !

 

good skill!

 

Just very worried about the smoking from the exhaust manifold area under the Intake Pipe Got me very concerned at the moment. I won't let it run too long as I'm worried about something catching on fire Is it the exhaust gasket resealing itself ? I shall investigate. The smoke doesn't really smell of anything ? Nothing strong anyway.

So first thing tomorrow going to buy a CO2 fire extingusher.

 

I had loads of smoke coming off my 8v's exhaust manifold after doing the HG, I'll bet you its WD40 (or similar) used on the manifold bolts. It'll cook itself off before long

 

as above it will be the dirty finger prints burning of leave it running for half hour check the oil and water levels ect should be fine

 

they are right mate just check there are no wires or pipes resting on the manifold but you will find it will stop if you let the dirt and oil burn off.

 

Just a query, I did my VR6 headgasket and didn't skim the head either; does this mean we have decreased the compression of the engine and will lose a bundle of power too?

 

sometimes whe a head is removed they warp so when fittd they dont seat flat but generally this will only happen if the car has overheated

saying that every head i take of i get skimmed just for piece of mind

 

i take my head to a engine specialist and the guy said to me he'd never fit a head that hadn't been skimmed.

just not worth the risk he said.

if its within the limits as per the haynes/bentley though you should be ok.

with my luck tho i just had it skimmed or i'd be worrying.

Chris

 

I had a new cylinder head put on from a 2.9 corrado that had done only very few miles. The head was in very good condition so i didn't skim it. I had never seen a head with aflat face on it before so i was worried that if I skimmed it I would end grinding into the valve seals. I'm gonna fill up with coolant tomorrow morning and keep an eye out for any leaks.

Tam

 

OK a long story in the offing here -

I wasn't happy with what was going on after putting the head back on. So I took the manifold off again and checked the exhaust manifolds, cleaned them with Carb. Cleaner. Then reassembled everything and the engine still wasn't right. I had a lot of coolant in the oil and oil in the coolant

So I did the right thing, I stripped the engine <again> in 3 1/2 hours, hired a car for the next day and took the head to be skimmed. I phoned a VW specialist and asked who they used for head skims. Took it over the next day, dropped it off at 9:20am and it was ready by 11:50am Yes the head was warped, around the cylinders it was fine, it was only warped near the leftside edge where the gasket leak was happening (oil & water pathways).

Got all my bits together for rebuilding it over the wekend (new OEM gasket, few other bits - oil temp sensor, etc.), I thought why don't I go for the GSF bolts and save myself 50 ? I had read that they can go soft. But I asked the guy at GSF 'they won't go soft will they .... ?', to which he said no !

So today I have just spent 3 hours preparing the head, new gasket on, lower inlet manifold on, exhaust manifolds on. So I copper grease the head bolts, start tightening them - 40Nm, 60Nm, then on the first 90 degree turn 2 bolts go very soft on me After my first attempt and having to bin 70 of OEM bolts, you can just tell the quality of the GSF bolts aren't up to much. Hence on the finishing line for tightening them they give out ??? So rather than having a car back together and running it has to wait another 3 days for the VW OEM ones to turn up. Dang that means train & walk to work

Anyway a few pics -

One nicely skimmed head -



The previous leaking / warped area -





Cam lifters soaked in oil before putting them back into the head (in order as well ! ) -




Lessons learnt thus far -

1. Always get the head skimmed
2. Disassemble / assemble head bolts in order specified
3. Use only VW OEM bolts !
4. Mark the chains on the cam shaft sprockets with paint (or something) before taking the chain off.
5. Bleed the chain tensioner before putting it back on !
6. With CGTi membership a VR6 VW OEM gasket costs 26+vat & not 40+vat (at Derby it does anyway).
7. Carb Cleaner is the best stuff in the world !!! Strips grease and dirt in micro seconds.

I will get some pics up of the finished article at the weekend.

 

you love a challenge

not long to go now tho

 

yeah very pleased i had my membership card for when i just did my rebuild. must have saved a fair bit of dosh.

hope it runs ok now

 

Crap bolts, what a bast

First time tackling jobs like this always throw up problems, but are always a learning experience. Hopefully the bolts will be the last hurdle and you'll be back on the road very soon mate.

 

Cheers mate, yes I can't wait to use it too !

Hmmm now onto my 2nd new headgasket. Binned the first new one after 20mins of using the engine. As for the second new one, it did get compressed a little with the GSF bolts but not fully, i.e. first 1/4 turn in the middle, so not all the way. But I'm sure it will be ok to re-fit it, it was only on for about 30mins Had a look and saw some compression but a little bit left to give I think .... ?

 

I just ran mine with coolant topped up and it looks like I got lucky. No leaks, will keep an eye on the situation though for any signs of coolant in the oil, I really don't fancy taking the head off for a second time though.

Tam

 

i had the same thing with some gsf head bolts, a couple wen't so soft they felt like they were just about to shear

by chance i rang my local independant motor factor and they had febi bolts in, top notch and the same price as the gsf ones

Chris