http://car.kak.net/2007/12/21/ground-breaking-new-seven-speed-dsg-gearbox-set-to-debut-in-golf/ Got me thinking - anyone know if a DSG box has been mated to an engine that was not DSG from the factory ? presumably the box has its own ECU (anyone know ?) or if any clever folk out there are making stand alone controllers for DSG ? could be great for motorsport...... Cheers Rob
DSG boxes have an external control unit that talks to engine ecu/shifter/paddles etc and they also have mechatronic control units that control both their clutches which are built into the gearbox itself. would be an enormous task i would guess ...
I think some non DSG engine ECU’s could be programmed for use with a DSG box by recoding them, not 100% sure but may be possible. A lot of the control units have variant coding to tell them what other systems are fitted and how the car is configured so to a degree some of the control units must be generic
I tried doing it th other way, using VAG COM to change the coding on an Audi A3 3.2 DSG ecu to work in my golf. IT wouldn't do it. The engine would run, but it was bizarre to drive. Blipping the throttle on up changes!
From what you said I thought it wouldnt accept the code would it? if you enter an incorrect code for ECU it just reverts back to the original or last correct code entered.
I am really suprised that there isn't a standalone ecu for this yet, bet there are folks working on it - will be asking about at autosport took a while for aftermarket haldex controllers but they came along eventually downside will be the mass of the unit compared with a conventional box but if a 7 speed paddle shift setup was available, gotta be interesting to try that out.....especially if it could be made to work with left foot braking
yes it is on DBW engine, it would know on the from the engine ECU via Can bus that the brakes wear being pressed, normally as most of you know it should drop power on the manual transmission cars mk4's have the trip tronics, so think the DSG would use mostly same sensors- the bell housing pattern would be same as 02m boxes
I'd imagine cost of the whole thing is what's holding them back, plus lack of obvious motorsport use, being fairly heavy components (box/double clutch)... So aftermarket needed to support it I'd guess. Stunningly effective bits of kit though - makes driving quickly border on too easy IMO. Wouldn't mind trying one in a conversion though.
Let us know if you come across anything as far as stand alone DSG ECUs go. I have some project ideas up my sleeve...
There is a standalone controller for the DSG box, http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...=0CAgQ7gEwAA&prev=/search?q=corrado+dsg&hl=en
Cannot understand this I am afraid - any guide as to where the dsg ecu bit is? There was an interesting test a couple weeks ago of the new Ibiza cupra in autocar - the one with the 1.4T with 7 speed DSG - autocar said that when used on track, DSG was appalling, freezing between gears on occasion - sounds really crap I really like the idea of the dsg as if it was set up right, it would be very fast and would make left foot braking really easy - maybe some day standalone controllers will be available to set the boxes up for race use.
Does your SQS dog box not shift without a clutch, enabling left foot braking already? I've confused Mk5 DSGs on the Inters slalom before, but that's pretty extreme - I felt they would be fine on more open courses, and rate the concept highly. Having said that, I'd be unwilling to bolt a ~50kg FWD transmission in a competition car.
I was thinking as an alternative to a dog box. If DSG was any good in competition mode, would be an interesting alternative - and I think it could be as the works quattros had some early form of dsg but yes there would be a large weight penalty in the nose of the car autocar reckoned the 7-speeder was proper crap in trackday mode
Surely not already? I agree too that the DSG is mega, but I can't see it getting any lighter and having a real competition function. For the road, I would struggle to to choose between H-pattern manual or DSG. Entirely different - I was looking at one earlier today in this Quattro S1: 'PDK' transmission, it was a bolt-on fitment to a standard H-pattern box to enable the clutch to be controlled via a switch: button on the gearlever and an actuator on the clutch pedal. The drivers would just have this clutch pedal going up and down if its own accord in the footwell - nothing more than the Duck Clutch disabled facilty that used to be on the Reeves Mk1, and Alex Zanardi uses for his racing, post crash.
Not for my car right now, very pleased with my SQS box, I was thinking as an alternative in general - the SQS system is very good, miles better shift (when really on it) than a std synchro box, as lightweight as a regular manual and all that, but its not cheap. But equally, its not as good, or as expensive, as a full-blown sequential box like a Sadev/Xtrac/Hewland. http://www.urquattro.fr/Web/Pages/Journaux/diversetrangers/JE08.html This article from the Audi Magazine suggests the PDK box was a bit more than a powered normal clutch - 'double clutch' being mentioned several times and material like this: "I could change gear at full throttle, without any decrease in pulling power or any falling off of turbo boost", recalls Rohrl, tasked with development testing" "the PDK's seamless gearchanges lost him the rhythm of his pace notes" "A short selector stick replaced the manual car's gearlever" "The PDK's computer protected the engine by refusing to change down if it would take revs beyond a preset 8400 rpm limit could be programmed to change down if revs dropped below the optimum 5000 rpm level" Sounds like there were only 2 PDK-equipped S1's; one is likely to be in Austria and the other is in Audi UKs Heritage Collection: "centrepiece of Audi UK's historic collection since 1998, exercised regularly by Michele Mouton at the Goodwood Festival of Speed" BUT....the UK one does not have the PDK box fitted by the sounds of things, as Rohl has it in his garage Maybe he's keeping it to drop in a Nova one day
RobT is correct, the Porsche-Audi PDK is far more than an automated clutch. It was a joint effort between the aforementioned Porsche & Audi and is the forerunner of the current Porsche PDK and the various DSG designs that Borg Warner, Gatrag, Ricardo etc have developed. The PDK was developed/used in Porsche's LeMans cars and Audi's group B evolution 2 (but as has already been said) there are only a couple (of quattro ones) still in existence They are all twin clutch, twin input shaft designs were two gears can be engaged concurrently, some are dry clutch, some wet but the basic principles are all pretty similar. I've not been out in a DSG VW yet but if it's even half as good as the one fitted in the new skyline (which I have been lucky enough to 'test' extensively) then I would LOVE to try one fitted in a nice light MK2 or Corrado!!
I cant work that site out either but they have a DSG box fully working on a corrado g60 turbo http://www.myvideo.de/watch/4962874/DSG_Corrado_G60_Turbo
Thanks for clarifying Simon - I know there's no guesswork involved, coming from you! I have personally seen the gearshift button cars on several occasions, which led me to believe it was PDK, ie one and the same. Amazing it took the VAG group a further 20 years to put one in a car I guess the refinement process has been arduous. Walter Rhorl is contracted to Porsche, coupled with his career success, ensures he won't be driving a Vauxhall Nova anytime soon. Fortunately Porsche now make 911s with 'PDK' gearboxes... So, back to my original question: does your SQS dog box not shift without a clutch, enabling left foot braking?
