From 8v to 16v and why you should make the change NOW !!

Au contraire! Some of the main 8v protagonists are always banging on about the torkes !!

 

You need that little nudge at 4k to move the extra weight

 

Whichever way the result goes, it would be great to check the 'suspect' VW graphs; so I applaud Toyotec for having the willingness, equipment and skills to attempt a fair, scientific test.



Might need to do a few cars of each type if the results aren't clear-cut, but cross that bridge when/if you come to it. If I can help in any way, I'd be happy to.

 

is this another p-take thread of the old 8v v 16v argument?

this was settled years ago, the only thing the 8v won on was power per valve wasn't it??

 

Argument settled?

I get up in the morning and look for a new 8v vs 16v argument! I mean... doesn't everybody else... surely?

The last shreds of the 'torque per valve' lampoonery were seen here

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234372

 

"If you dont bring all the cars, they'll all cheat"!... Tiff Needell... BTCC pre-season fun test 1993 I think...

I'm sure the odd lightened flywheel will creep into the 8v's!

I know it's been a debated subject for YEARS.... but does it really matter?

From a standing start a 16v will be quicker... no contest there... but "every" KR 16v we tested on the rollers (and we did "many") way back when had the same dip in the power curve... and not the smooth line VW touted.

Some out on the road felt very good... some flat as a fart... even though the power curves where all but identical.. a hp here and there.

We dont always need "numbers" to make a car feel good... for the most, an 8v is a very good point to point car, and can be made better with mild to wild mods... like I said before... nobody pokes fun at a MK1 Escort owner because he has a Crossflow or Pinto instead of a YB/BDA/Duratec.

I'm sure I remember the in-gear times for the 8v being faster than the 16v in the mag tests of the time... in fact I'm quite confident they were... but maybe it was a very good 8v & a below par 16v... who knows.

I remember a similar thing happening with the MK3 Escort XR3i V's the then new RS16ooi... despite the RS having 10hp more, it was no better in the real world than the XR.

It'll be fun to see the outcome though... and hats off for putting the effort in.

 

No argument, merely involved and extensive discussions. Pathetic 16v needing to go to bed to rest, I stay up all the time to monitor any 8 versus 16v shizzle.

Nothing wrong with my calculations either. You merely put some creative accounting in to distract folks from the real figures.

Now off you go and make the extra 10kgs of weight miraculously disappear.

 

god used an 8v to put planet earth on its 20-something-degree axis. without it wed have no seasons, that was established years ago also

 

1am PFFMV register.

Original Danster?

Danster? McDan? You there??

Nope, disappeared to bed

Pfft, I shall revert on the other thread! Your creativity is the notion that power is benchmarked to valve count!

Never in dispute!!

 

I have had all 3 MK2 vehicles with EV, PB and KR engines. I can distinctly remember my first experience of driving a valver. We owned the valver and a digifant MK2 at the same time too.
The EV car was pretty nippy, but ran out of puff post 5500 rpm, the PB car was OK generally, but I never liked it as a GTI and the old valver accelerated like a train until the soft cut kicked in. I had all working in very good condition and they were std expect for the EV car benefited from a 16v WUR. However the resources that are available now to confirm exactly what you are taking about were not available to me then so what I said is can be taken as subjective.
Yes the long intake manifold has and effect on the torque curve on a 16v causing a dip for ~ 500rpm near 3K, whether this dip causes one engine to have less torque than the other for this speed range will be revealed in testing. This is not shown on the VW published plot for 16v vs 8v power and torque. 8vs tend to have the torque profile shaped as a very high speed diesel. Whether the high point of the lower torque curve is significantly larger than a 16v that is running up to 4000 rpm remains to be seen in testing.
In gear and passing will be tested, but most importantly stuff like Gs, Distance, rate of speed also.
This is not only about rollers and numbers, it is also about drive experience and objectivity.
That is the test plan in a nut shell just to find the 'right cars'.

 

always had a smile when i drove my mk1 8v, 165bhp 154Nm iirc

 

An 8v feels like an asthmatic pit pony compared to a 16v

 

in standard form probably lol

 

Me too, when I drive my 315PS 16v WOLF R .

Neither the same as std cars...

 

toyotec i never refered to std, just mentioning how much fun i had from a na 8v

 

Please please please do an 8v day Eddie, then once weve some figures from the likes of mike's 2.1 and Jason hill climb car we could do a sort of top 10 8v v's 16v on the same day

 

I have still been here, lurking in the shadows watching proceedings all night. You just have not seen me.



"Monitor" does not mean I have to respond or retort to the dubious 16v propaganda.

 

It is an idea worth considering once there is enough interest.