Ahhh right I thought being in the business you would have mates in all different areas of the field than can offer you expertise at the end of a phone. You just said that you have used projects to experiment to see if a certain idea will work or not, which is similar to what I am doing to see if this x flow idea works or not.
I would not describe my colleagues and working professionals as "mates". The differnce with me and you regarding trying ideas, it probably will not have a financial impact and I have my prior knowlege, with the tools and software at my disposal to use good judgement before a permanent solution is found. Projects these days are actaully a spin off from my professional time.
1 - you`ve solved your own problem then ! 2 - thought that you were happy paying out for modifications ? 3 - what exactly is it that you now want, given the input from all these posts ?
Lighten up Danster I would appreciate a bit of critical analysis on my projects, I do not post just to get 'well dones' I post so that I get the advice of our many different experts, this adivce (if backed up with knowledge and justification) will then be researched and adapted into my builds if appropriate and cost effective.
Lighten up yourself bud. And I only mentioned that because of your negativity towards the crossflow head based on your own counterflow head experiences. That lad is not on here much and will know nothing about all this latest thread. I could easily go and pick holes in anyone's work as they could in mine. But he is not involved in this banter so may not appreciate the intrusion. Fair enough if he wishes to become involved. For a lad that is wary of opening up and building an engine I would take some of your advice with a pinch of salt.
That's rich, you are the one that has changed his name half way through the thread!! Are you on the run from the 16v police or something?
And now something a bit more useful. To the chap who originally inquired, Madasafish. I tried skim reading through again and got a headache. I see that your counterflow head has already had money invested in it to make improvements. Does a modified crossflow head have significant, not slight improvements over your current head? I think Mr Hillclimber has assessed this to some degree. If so then do it! If not, then stick with what you have and have it setup properly if not already done. The only disadvantage I can see is by going crossflow is that you will be swinging a load of weight from behind the engine round to the front of it. (Edited for mistake, Lol) Gurds
Yeah, thats certainly something to be conscious of. I considered it, but id still say the swap nets gain
In the tradition of scene forums, I'll not read the thread, but will answer the OP's question with a simple "no" Get a valver, you knowz it (shuffles off to read the thread now)
I know, I'm quite impressed at how far it's gone seeing as it lost all meaning and turned into a "convert to 16v" thread about 4 pages ago.
Pah, 7 pages and no punchline! Let's be honest, everyone had their own idea of what this thread was about. The inevitable 8v vs 16v debate - I don't want to kill it - but I feel part of our endless windups have appeared in this thread, but got taken a tiny bit too seriously at times. We all know the conceptual pros and cons in the valve debate, and long may it continue Planning stuff down the minutest budgets I don't believe is the way, so a few hundred here and there isn't what makes a conversion. You do it because you want to do it, and nothing's going to stop you once the concept has crystallised. There's always a worst case blow up contingency plan needed in any of this game also. My 2 penneth: looks like there's a perfectly decent engine insitu already - why bother touching it? Bhp per pound on a crossflow conversion isn't going to pay out IMO.
8 pages and deffinately no sign of a punch line, it's kept me amused over the run up to Xmas. The 8v16 debate is deffinately present here and it has got pretty heated at times...just aslong as no1 takes it too seriously it's all gd fun hey?! The engine in there is good yes, the Crossflow power per may not be worth but but getting the carbs away from the heat, stopping heat soke and improving drive ability in traffic should make it with it. Also the ability to fit longer ram pipes than 30mm to give me better low rev drivability and torque. Granted it may not be as powerful as the almighty (cough cough) 16v and you extra valve lovers may think it's a foolish concept but some thing has to keep us 8v money wasting eeedyits occupied. HAPPY CRIMBO every one ( even the 8v haters, I'm in a festive mood )
Blimmey... cant I leave you guys alone for a few days without handbags at dawn!... it was Christmas after all... good will to all men & preferred number of valves! Anyway, just so you have something else to beat each other over the head with into the new year, here, at last, are my crossflow test findings to date... enjoy, and be nice! Ok... 1st up is a std 8v head flow for comparrison... .050... 15.3 .100... 27.2 .150... 39.7 .200...52.4 .250...63.5 .300... 68.1 .350... 70.3 .400... 71.2 .450...71.5 .500...70.5 And now, a std 8v crossflow. This is 3ME type with the swirl lump, and, a 39.5mm inlet valve instead of the 40.0mm inlet of the older type head... .050...16.3 .100...31.8 .150...44.4 .200...56.2 .250...65.7 .300...71.9 .350...77.4 .400...82.3 .450...83.7 .500...83.4 As you can see, flow is up everywhere, a fair percentage up at the low end, the gap narrows in the mid lift, but grows again at the top of the flow/lift range. Now, what happens when we do some mild JMR porting work on the crossflow... this is just in the seat & the throat area below the seat, the main port runner is'nt touched at this point... it's big enough in std form to feed the std size valve... so, the numbers are... 0.50...17.1 .100...31.4 .150...46.4 .200...59.1 .250...70.8 .300...79.9 .350...86.3 .400...89.4 .450...90.1 .500...88.9 So some subtle work shows a positive improvement, but how does that compare to a ported old style head?... well thats easy, here is one... .050...15.5 .100...30.7 .150...43.8 .200...55.1 .250...65.7 .300...73.6 .350...83.4 .400...85.4 .450...87.9 .500...86.0 As you can see, a std crossflow head makes a good account of itself up to past mid lift flow when compared to a ported normal type head, but a ported crossflow head, on a smaller valve, is currently showing a gain, and with a lot less work. The above is just inlet testing, there is exhaust work to come. Enjoy!... And if anyone wants to put the above into a nice chart to make comparrison easy then feel free... over to you Mike H!
Just to make those all nice and digestable for those of a denial persuasion (Same order) Lift 0.05 0.1 0.15 0.2 0.25 0.3 0.35 0.4 0.45 0.5 8v counterflow, standard, 40.0mm inlet 15.3 27.2 39.7 52.4 63.5 68.1 70.3 71.2 71.5 70.5 8v crossflow, standard - 3ME type with the swirl lump, 39.5mm inlet 16.3 31.8 44.4 56.2 65.7 71.9 77.4 82.3 83.7 83.4 Crossflow, as above, mild porting 17.1 31.4 46.4 59.1 70.8 79.9 86.3 89.4 90.1 88.9 Counterflow, as above, ported 15.5 30.7 43.8 55.1 65.7 73.6 83.4 85.4 87.9 86
A Festive Season gift from St. Nicholas, a.k.a. Mr Hillclimber - - Kudos and many, many thanks for your continued highly regarded contributions - - await exhaust flow figures with bated breath
