Mart It wasnt my inention to apportion blame to any party or question their work I just wanted to eliminate the flywheel from the list, it was worded very badly and I appologise Sounds like something is amiss with the release mechanisim then, I'll remove the cover in the morning and replace any worn or broken parts, can all the parts be changed with the gearbox back in situ? That way it can be put back in whilst I wait on any new parts Thanks Stu I have just had a lok at my haynes at it appears to have the relevant diagrams, yeah I work in computers think I should stick to them if I'm being honest Pete
I've moved all the pics over to a site provided by a buddy in Hammersmith (Vdubs garage in London, VW/Audi specialist, VW God, bitter UKer, etc. ) His site is www.thediygroup.com but the 020 stuff is in the MK2 menu at www.thediygroup.com/mk2.htm I also stuck the links in the "handy dandy link thread" at the top of the forum. http://www.clubgti.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43135&PN=1& FID=24&PR=3 With the release arm going past the 9:00 spot with ease, it is time to start looking further in..... broken actuation finger, crushed or failed TO bearing, broken pushrod, punctured thrust plate, broken PP springs, etc.... This page shows the release arm and where it should be... http://www.thediygroup.com/020clutcharm.htm and this page shows how to get the actuation finger and TO bearing removed to inspect them... http://www.thediygroup.com/TO.htm Broke
Good work Broke,it's stuff like this that makes these message boards all worthwhile. Hope it's nothing too serious Pete, good luck with fixing it, you've got some good info to go on now. Edited by: GVK
Cheers Here are a couple more pics I found, these were on the "photos" page (http://www.thediygroup.com/Photos1.htm), which is just a complete mess of garbage right now This shows the pushrod sticking out "about" 23mm when the arm is lifted to the 10:00 spot, this is the furthest the pushrod should protrude out... This pic shows how far the rod should be able to go in, assuming the black plastic stop clip is attached to the release arm. The release arm is sitting at the lowest point, so the plastic stop slip is sitting on the ledge on the trans. This is how far out the pushrod should be if the cable is removed from the arm and it is allowed to drop... Here is a pic of the stop clip I mean (being removed from the arm, and you can see the small ledge the clip rests on when the arm drops)... The pictures of the pushrod show a VERY badly worn end, the pushrod, from VW, should be slightly tapered at the clutch end (as shown in the pics), and end in a perfect round ball end. The TO bearing end is not tapered, and also ends in a perfect round ball end to fit into the cup of the TO bearing. Rods from places like GSF (didn't think a yank knew about German Swedish, didja' ) will not be tapered, they'll just be an 8mm rod all the way along, with rounded ends. The ends of the pushrod are discolored from the hardening process, so don't be alarmed if the ends look like they've been hot. When the end of the rod is flat like that, it wants to walk and wobble around on the thrust plate (look for a large or oval wear pattern on the plate to see if the rod has been walking), and a wobbling pushrod will quickly ruin the pushrod bushing and then the seal, and you'll get a leak and a contaminated clutch disk. A page showing the pushrod seal and bushing is here http://www.thediygroup.com/020seal.htm (and for no reason, a tip -- the trans pictured is a large 24mm mainshaft unit [MK2 16V and MK3 2.0L] and this is easy to tell because of the white stripe around the seal, 22mm seals don't have the stripe. If in doubt, all seals have 3 numbers printed along them, that one in the pic would have something like 23.9 - 40 - 8 on it, telling you the ID of 23.9mm for the 24mm shaft, and an OD of 40mm to fit into the hole, and then a seal depth of 8mm, or how tall the seal is) Broke
Nice one broke, you got a great set of pics there mate. Most of the seals over here will be full numbers but I did have one supplier who was getting them with the correct full size on them, shame the rest of his parts cost a kidney
Don't worry about it, an engine swap is a steep learning curve, I'd have never completed mine without help from people on here and a lot of swearing and skinned knuckles! Just to say that those pics and the info from Broke is amazing, I think I finally understand how the clutch works now, never made sense before even after taking it apart and fitting a new one in my car!
Noooooooo, Gvk will remember this, I changed my Engine a little while ago and had the same problem, What i forgot to do is remove the metal sleeve type things that go in the gearbox bolt holes from the new engine, This stopped the engine bolting up tight to the box.
Right went up to the garage this morning and took a look When I read it could be the dowels I was pretty pleased, we left the originals in from the Audi block (Im talking about the copper coloured sleeves on the lower two bolt holes), however they looked the same as those in the KR engine, I mentioned this to my mechanic and he commented that the box was a tight fight to the block, Anyway looked at the clutch arm as brokes link showed and I can move the arm by hand right up to the metal round piece , however this is with the box out of the car, I cant gather if this is a problem with the box out of the car though? Or is it a problem only when the box is fitted? Clutch Link We measured the rod and it was coming out approx 23mm max when the arm was in its highest position (just underneath the round metal part of the box) Going to remove the plastic cover at lunch and see if there is any damage One thing we had to use a lot of force to remove the clutch cable could I have possibly damaged something doing this? We did measure the pressure plates on both the KR and ACE engines I placed the pressure plate onto the kr and measured it and then measure the ACE and pressure plate. From the edge of the block to the round front on the pressure place the KR is approx 1mm further out towards the gearbox, could this be causing problems?
The dowel could be a problem, My problem was i had the dowel in the block as well as the gearbox so i had two dowels per hole so the Gearbox was being pushed away from the gearbox.
With the box out your not going to know if the arm is cracked at the back as there's now no rpessure on the finger for it to turn on the spline. With the box out, the arm will travel right up. Have a look at the outer flange of the box, and the matting face of the block, and see how many dowels you have and if they are in the same place opposite each other. If they are the boxisn't being pulled up flat nor square. The 1mm shouldn't make alot of difference, as this measurement is on an un-sprung face, and with the flwheel and firction disk in and clamped together it'll probably be far less than 1mm. Have you got any pics of the rod and the 5th gear housing with the green cap taken off, and also of the gearbox edge/block face?
Thanks guys I checked the gearbox and all the holes had no dowels in and were clear IIRC there was only two dowels in the block and they were in the two lower holes. Should every hole have a dowel in? I didnt remove from the KR block and there was only two in that IIRC Havent got any pics unfortunately I can try and get some at lunch and post them here pete
There should only be 2 dowels, both tat the bottom. So itf there's 2 in the block, there shouldn't be any in the box and visa-versa. Think it's time you got that cover off
Couldnt get out a lunch as I had to much on but I spoke to my mechanic, I printed all of brokes guides off and left them with him, he has removed the green cover and taken a look everything seems ok with nothing broken or in the wrong place I had a new thrust bearing in my parts box so hes bunged that in, this next bit is very embarrassing one thing he did notice that there was a small amount of polystyrene packing behind the springed teeth of the pressure plate teeth dont know how much was in there I thought I had got it all out I even used an airline to clear it all out. Anyway hes cleaned it out If the clutch pressure plate and flywheel are all ok on that side and the selector rod bearing, finger, springs etc are ok on the other I can only presume it is this polystyrene that is causing the problem Hopefully the box should be going back in the next few days hopefully it should be ok, Pete Edited by: Peter
Right gearbox is back in and we still cant get gears the pushrod is coming out 23mm so it looks like that isnt worn, Its like the clutch is too close to the block, Could I have been sent the wrong pressure plate? My mecanic mentioned that he can lift the lever past 9 oclock so going from the article there is obviously a problem there altough I really cant understand what it is as on inspection everything seems ok and we have replaced the thrust bearing As I mentioned the box worked fine before I removed it, so its a real puzzle Pete
Pete - sorry to hear you are still having problems. If time is a major factor and you need a quick fix then you can borrow my 'spare' gearbox if you want and return it when you have yours sorted properly? It's the original one from my 16v, all working great and complete (140k miles), just swapped it 'cos it had a crunch into 2nd when cold and was keeping it to hopefully get it rebuilt and swapped back into my car in future. I also have the clutch that came out with the box plus a spare standard flywheel if any of it is any help? PM me if it's any use, I think you're fairly local to me aren't you? Edited by: Stu
I have a 1.8L block with the clutch parts mounted on it, and it is sitting on the garage floor, so I took some real rough measurements while I was out there.... Keep in mind, these are rough measurements, really only taken to help in this particular situation, and the figures shown will vary from a number of things, but the hope was that you could check to see if you were "in the ballpark" with your parts over there. They might help, they might not.... This pic shows the measurement from the red circle to the blue circle....the protruding face of the actual clutch disk hub down to where the pushrod will contact the thrust plate... This pic shows the measurement from the same clutch hub face, to the actual engine block. I measured above the engine tin piece, and went from the actual cast block to the clutch hub face (best I could anyway!)... This pic will be pretty useless as a change here should be pretty noticeable, but this is the measurement from the face of the trans where it mates to the engine, to the tip of the mainshaft.... I'm anxious to find out what the problem is, because the list of things to check is running out really. I'm sure I'm not as anxious as the car owner, but I would like to know what the problem was Oh, yes, there are only 3 bolts evenly spaced in the flywheel, but I made sure the flywheel was pulled down tight and clamping the disk, so the measurements should be OK enough for the intended purpose. Oh, and the pushrod, when the release arm is sitting at the 9:00 spot, should be sticking out about 16mm or so from the tip of the mainshaft. Pushed in all the way it should be in the 4mm area, at 9:00 it should be in the 16mm area, and lifted all the way to 10:00 it should be out in the 23mm area. Broke
Thanks Stu thats really kind of you, apologies for not replying sooner I've been away all weekend, I'm going up to see the car in the morning and decide what the best action is, I'm either going to push on and try and fix it or lay the car up for the near future as its beginning to eat into my work time and social life which I dont want, I'll drop you a PM when I know whats going on if thats ok, would be good to test it at least then I could remove the box from the list of possible problems. I'm based in Liverpool so not too far away Its strange because the gearbox worked fine when I removed I can only think that it has to be something to do with the block or the new clutch Is there are spacer or something that goes on the end of the KR crank which I havent fitted to the ACE? Broke thanks for taking the pictures thats a really big help, before the box was refitted on Friday my mechanic measured the distance on both the old KR with pressure plate friction plate and flywheel clutch and flywheel and the ACE the with pressure plate friction plate and flywheel, he mentioned with everything fitted up that the clutch hub face on the KR was 2mm further out, would this make a difference? Pete
