Parts for 8v Digi to MS

Just finished reading Mike's newbie thread again and I am still pretty clueless with the whole MS thing. Most of the threads on MS relate to 16V cars or cars with ITBs. I just need a list of parts which will be best suited for taking an 8v Digi to MS so I can start collecting. I dont fancy making up brackets etc so want to try and source parts which would bolt on easily i.e. the TB. I am using an AGG bottom end if that makes any difference. If this has already been covered elsewhere please point me in the ight direction as I couldnt find definitives.

 

Would it not be easier to use the whole AGG engine? You have a nice useable TB on it already.

 

I have had the bottom end in my car for a couple of years now and I only bought the block which was mated to a pb head port and polished. Long before I had any idea of MS etc...

so as a starting point is it safe to assume I could use an AGG TB as a straight bolt on? I thought I read some where that a certain audi TB has the correct sensors and mounting to go on to a standard PB inlet

 

Ok then, it was just if you had the complete AGG engine that may have been an option.
You will be looking to replicate MikeH's setup with an Audi TB with TPS or mod your existing one. You may be able to run it on MAP signal though.
This is where Toyotec can advise better.

 

Audi 80's for your TB, but make sure they have the TPS pot instead of simple closed and WOT micro-switches. It'll be a little black box on the side.

Doesn't the digi have CLT and IAT sensors already? In which case you might want to consider a wideband lambda probe for ease of tuning but that involves modifying the downpipe.

You can use your standard injectors if you're not making many power mods but I'm not sure bigger injectors would fit in the standard rail.

If running higher power you will need a fuel rail, suitably sized injectors and adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Youl will then probably also end up needing new fuel lines and fittings unless Digi uses flexy/rubber fuel lines in the bay?

Yeah worth mentioning TPS isn't essential. I'm still running with out one, the map is setup for acceleration enhancements based on MAP increases. One guy on VWVortex said he had better results with MAP based acel enrichments compared to TPS-based.

 

For MS on one of these you need,

If you are using a digifant inlet manifold, a TPS as per Trev16v or Drunkenalan.
Or an Audi 80 or 100 throttle housing as in Mike_H's application.

Injectors are OK and are run in batch mode.

You also need an air temp sensor and GTD/Seat/Corrado VR6 airbox.

AFM is junked.
TCI-h and coil is reused as is the dizzy.

CLT is also resued.

This set-up will be run as speed density (MAP). The MAP comes with the ECU.


Please have a look at my 8v thread how to MS ask any questions if not clear.

The resulting control from mapping is what a 2l 8v conversion requires in to really shift the chassis. Without this change they run very average.

 

thanks everyone. Seems easier than a CE1 car. I will read more/start collecting then I will let you know when I am ready to purchase the ECU.

sorry just to confirm the audi 80/100 TB would bolt straight on? also quick ebay searches have resulted in a couple from automatics, would this make a difference

also do I need a wideband lambda thing or not?

 

Audi 80 bolts straight on I don't remember if the 100 is the same. Automatic is identical and they definitely have the TPS, whereas not all the other ones do. But I think the automatic ones come with an additional sensor too and I don't know what it does.

Wideband is not essential no. It's useful for mapping and tuning as it means you don't have to stick a probe up your exhaust every time you want to map, and it is also useful if you want to run closed loop for supreme economy. Normally you wouldn't miss it.

 

Hi mate I have an audi 80/100 Tb in the garage somewhere, If you are having problems locating one pm me

 

"CE1" does not matter. The WOLF R is "CE1".
I do not run that throttle on my 8v, but yes. Mike_H is the best person to answer that.

Wide band - optional.

 

Right I am going to spend the winter months slowly raising funds and collecting parts. Just read Drunkenalan's build thread, very exciting stuff. Just wondering once these are fully calibrated, how often do you need to have them re-done as the engine wears etc... or is it a pretty permenant thing?

 

The ECU is not that 'smart' and does not adapt. Not that digifant or the other aftermarket things in this price range would be any better. That 8v ran for 2 years as the wife's daily transport w/o any update cal work. If there was, it was for study or to simulate another car.

 

Im guessing its fairly easy to give it a 'freshen up' every couple of years? and would this be done on the road or on rollers?

 

Most of the bits you already have will work fine. You mostly just need a TB, and a different airbox without the digifant metering flap. I had an audi TB that turned out to just be an open/closed switch, but got a throttle pot from a Volvo Turbo to fit it, on a bodged up bracket.

If the car is mechanically in good order at the first calibration, then any changes needed should only be done after checks that the car is still in good order mechanically - e.g. temp sender, vac leaks, base timing, etc.


It's much easier to start with a digifant setup than the Kjet one I started with.


erm... you might also need an air intake temp sensor, and probably something else I forgot, but you're not far off as standard.

 

Freshening up is relatively simple to do on the road if you have a partner but you will need something to measure the AFR so you know how to adjust the map.

 

'Freshen up' method, depends on data that suggests adjustment is needed. Rolls are good for full load assesnemts. Road w/accelometer is good if you are sure the response is degraded.

 

thanks for all the input guys. Can't wait to make this happen but just going to take it easy and do it right first time unlike my usual adventures.

 

I did 8v digi to MS about 5 yrs ago and it was the best single thing I've done to the car.

I tried a rectangular TB from a Renault that had a throttle pot for a while but the cable attachment for it was a PITA and i seem to remember it fouling on the manifold somehow. Made a bracket and changed back to the digi one in the end, seemed to go better after too, never found out why but probably the cable. At the time I'd have said the bracket was a bit of a lash up just to see but its been fine ever since.

I'm changing to an ABF on GSXR ITBs this winter so it will be going spare soon...

I'd recommend wideband if you want to do a decent amount of road mapping. Otherwise NB is good enough to get it drivable then take it to a RR.