OK...my Fabia is tweaked... But there is a good 3500 RPM of oomph (1500 to 5000 RPM) available... My 16v comes on cam at 4500 RPM, revs to 7500 RPM...so that's......3000 revs of proper usable grunt. Hmm... The last time I took my 16v out for a blast I returned home to hook up VAG-Com as it felt so weak. I was convinced it was broken. It wasn't....just flat as a fart next to the vRS.
I think a Fabia vRS is around 1200 Kgs...and so is a Mk3 16v 5dr. So no weight advantage. Not sure if all Ford diesels have a big lag/delay...I know my other half's Fiesta does.
Stalling in 2nd gear - change down to 1st then... Wouldn't want to do the 100 miles a day I do in anything but a diesel.
This is because you don't know how to drive a diesel. You have to adapt your driving style a bit. If you want a diesel to be quick then you have to keep the turbo spinning which is very easy. You keep it on boost by changing at the right times.
I meant light weight compared to say the vectra with (probably) the same if not less power, which is probably the reason they are so pants off boost. The diesels I have driven pick up at 1500 rpm and anything over 3500 is pointless. They have all been 8v though, maybe a 16v diesel delivers more like a traditional turbo petrol (ie strong at high revs as apposed to having an athsma attack like mine does) The mondeo was worse, but only due to having a much bigger punch when it arrived I think. 4th gear on a motorway slip road was silly in that thing - 30mph to 80 in what felt like seconds
But i presume your slight fettling involves a remap which makes all the difference! PD's can get 35+ bhp and similar torque from a just a chip so that would comfortably see off a lot of things! I drove a friends remapped PD150 and it saw off a clio 172 cup easily! i always wanted an anniversary PD 150, which i would take to Allard for a new turbo and remap. the standard intercoolers on the 150 are good for 250bhp, and as long as you keep a good volumetric efficiency with large bore downpipes etc. you can minimise black smoke. you can get around 220bhp and shed loads of torque... need a LSD to put it down on the road though. I am still torn between this and getting an S3 225...... I think the fabia vRS is about 30-60kg lighter than the Golf IIRC
I suppose the example I'm trying to make is that a vRS with a Tuning Box (+30BHP & 40 lbf) against a Mk3 16v with +40 BHP and +25 lb-ft, but with a 3.94 FD, higher revving engine etc...the diesel just pulls away everywhere. Sure a vRS with a Tuning Box or Remap is much quicker than standard...but my 16v is also much quicker than standard and enough to leave 210/225 S3s and TTs behind it (I had a 210 S3, so I can compare) I have a Seat Sport FMIC and Forge piping to go on mine...before a proper Re-map. That'll give a few more BHP. Traction will always be a problem though...even with a Quaife or similar - it'll just spin both wheels. It's easy to get 300 lb-ft and more from the PD...but the clutch will go...followed by the dual mass flywheel. Sure you can fit a single mass flywheel...but have you driven a PD with a single mass flywheel? Yeuck. Well, if you get a S3 and go wild with a re-map, you'll end up with a diesel like torque delivery anyway. I had 280 BHP and 332 lb-ft out of mine...and I got used to short shifting and letting the torque do the work. Maybe that's why I took to a diesel easily? I think the 30Kg is about right...for a 5dr GTI 16v vs a vRS.
a couple years ago i spent an afternoon at santa pod chatting to and racing a guy with a fabia that had a tuning box. my golf was standard then and i was getting my ass handed to me and we tried over and over. his was doing the quarters in 15.5-15.7. the quickest i ever got was 16 dead
the 8v PDs have lots of low grunt butu above 3500 it all goes a bit slow, but you shift up at 2500 max anyway as peak torque is 1800-2100 rpm so you just drive there, the 2.0s are a bit like the petrol ones, they dont give you as much of a whack in the back as they come on boost smoother but again just drive them from 1700 - 2300 as there you will be ticking along fast but not munching fuel, the best bit though is that you can easily rev these to 4k+ so no need to change up when overtaking folk. but what alot of folk dont realise is that if you do plant your foot in a diesel and drive them quick you will still get **** poor economy, they arent magical around town either...plus you need to look how you drive, engine brake when ever you can, smooth throttle and not nailing it to get up to speed as quick as poss. Like Matt says, diesels used to be sloooowww....not any more,
^^^ there is no question they are quick and the OP even said he thought it was as quick. But driving around quickly not knowing it is niether fun or licence friendly. What he said, was that it was no fun. Shortshifting to keep in the power band is not fun in my eyes - its like shifting to save fuel - BORING!!!!! Yes a 16v doesn't have a lot before say 4k..... but it sure is fun pulling away and leaving your foot to the floor for the best part of 6k revs getting proggressivly quicker and quicker rather than getting all your torque at 1800 and running out of puff a couple of thousand rpm later.....
I've been driving my 16v for 2 years now so maybe its just that im so used to the kind of power delivery... im not having a dig at the PD engines..i know they are quick.. especially with tuning boxes. just saying i was dissappointed with the fuel economy on the kind of local jourenys i do Seeing as that is the main reason i would buy one, cos its sure as hell got nothing to do with the sound. because of the high torque relative to power they are always going to get down to work and cover the ground quickly, i just found it kind of underwhelming. You cant compare BHP between petrol and diesels due to the torque differences: a standard golf PD130 is the same speed as a MK3 16v with 150 despite the MK4 weighing 60+ kg more. My 16v with 165+ is quicker than a standard PD130, but with the same amount spent on tuning the diesel would trounce it. http://www.allardmotorcompany.com/pages/atmr/petrol-vs-diesel/petrol-vs-diesel.asp this is a good article... a PD130 with 200bhp canes a 1.8T with 220+bhp Diesel 30-70 (3rd gear) 7.5 secs Petrol 30-70 (3rd gear) 15.4 secs Torque FTW
nooooooo that test you have given there is great but its not really representative of whats going on. due to the small revs band, the gearing is different so for that to be comparable the diesel should be in 4th 20vts are diesel-enough as it is, but put the 20vt into 2nd and youll have a different story diesels are a pain in the ass for me (ive found) because coming out of a tight ish corner, they are instantly in a rev band where they can deliver shove and get away. its all about the power delivery, their's deliver the goods a lot sooner... in effect making a much more flexible engine. i like them, i had a pd130 a4 so ill praise them all day long, but i think its a primal man thing, we like to rev the nuts off things and i think we have since cave man days. why do you think we love drills so much?!
I'm surprised you were dissapointed with the economy. I potter about town in mine with it barely up to operating temperature (the shopping run) or else I'm hammering it along back roads...I don't drive mine for economy except if I'm away for the weekend for example...so I'm certainly not getting the best efficiency from the diesel. But, driving this way gets me around 40-45 MPG. I get about 360 miles to the fuel light, from full - about 37.00 to re-fill. Before I got the vRS, I used the GTI...same sort of driving etc... Diving the same way got me around 20 MPG. (21-22) I get about 190 miles from full - about 37.00 to re-fill. These are both considering a mix of local journeys (1-2 miles accross town), or playing about on back roads, as well as a few dual carridgeway miles here and there. Even when hammering the vRS everywhere I still get about 35-40 MPG (with a HUGE smokescreen behind) whereas my 16v would have been returning sub 20 MPG when spending it's time above 7000 RPM. I just can't see how I'm loosing...nearly twice the miles per fill up, more torque, generally quicker car etc...win, win surely? But...the old diesel does sound awful...and the vRS isn't as much fun as the 16v...that's for sure.
Something else... If you want to rev high...buy a Honda VTEC. If you want torque, buy a diesel. Poth have pros and cons... The only genuinely satisfying engines i've ever come accross are big capacity petrol engines - no lag, instant throttle response, good low down torque and a top end to die for. Audi 4.2 V8, Porsche 3.6 flat 6 are two of the best. (loads of grunt, loads of top end power)
your abf is different though, a normal abf will get over 300 miles a tank unless you do something really mad with it, your economy isnt really indicative of how much these things cost to run
I do miss my mk3 though, nice simple engine with nothing massive to worry about.. the PD130 cost me 300 in the first week of ownership for a new alternaor.. that hurt especially as I had nearly 2 years of trouble free motoring from the 16v..
No, that's not true. My old man used to own my 16v and he used to get nearly 300 miles out of a tank, driving like he was taking my Gran to church. Even when the car was standard, I didn't see much over 230 miles to the tankful, using it for the type of driving I currently use my Fabia for, and driving as I drive. I just don't see how it's possible to get over 300 miles from a tank of a Mk3 16v, if you use it. Hell, a mate of mine used to get well under 200 miles from his standard 16v! Maybe us northern types drive a bit harder? Comparing apples with apples... The Fabis will do 400 miles to a tank if I defeat the Tuning Box....so the deficit status-quo returns.
