Throttle bodies

Gary is correct......200bhp is achievable for a grand or thereabouts provided you do the right thing and source the bits carfully.

200bhp is about the limit on K jet in reality unless you use a VW Motorsport metering head and different injectors and mapping.

My K jet car runs split combo cams following Bills trials I bought them from him after he noticed Mr Valdez's comments on cam profile research.

H8S8VS...276/268 do give good torque ALL the way thru hence Race Dynamic's research.
Have you not seen Matt Drews recent power/torque figures at Stealth.
Bill's 268/268 Crane Cams always seem to work well on his Jetta.

Gary have you received Matt's plots for posting ??

As for is 1.8T better than 2L valver luckily I can share my experiences.
As Bill states it is apples and pears.
A 2 Litre valver really is a budget sports car whereas 1.8t Golfs are still a considerable amount to purchase in the first place.
Our MKIV is 230+bhp and 240lbs and is a quick road car but in THAT spec it would NOT be able to stay with my valver on track because it has not had the investment to make the power to ratio aspect better.It needs money...lots of it on a bigger turbo to make it that much quicker than my valver.
It would need an intercooler/more mapping/different inlet manifold/a 6 speed box as they seem to be stronger/possibly a Quaiffe where do you stop........perhaps I will wait for my RS4 after all.

It's all about choice !!

You can go even further with a valver ie Solid lifter head steel billet crank,carillo rods T/B's but then yes it's slightly quicker at 8000rpm but it's not finacially viable IMO unless racing.


If I had the budget yes I would go T/B's for better set up/more torque etc but my budget won't run that far.

Ianb

 

One of the advantages I see of running a 16v over the 1.8T is the price of spairs and that it's an engine that most people can work on at home. I would have thought that this would espesaly apply to people who use their cars on track alot

 

That's a very good point Alan

Ian - the graphs are on the website at the bottom of

http://gvk.altrezia.com/page4.html

Shows Matt's compared to mine,Dex and Barnys 16v's..

As you can see Matt's gives far more bottom end power than B's on straight 276s, at the expense of 7bhp at the top end.


Edited by: G_V_K

 

Very interesting Gary

Looking forward to Staelth to see what mine can do

Ian

 

I got my latest project running (Passat) in about an hour. I do have a history of maps and some years experience on the systems I use tho.. so there's no excuse for me really.

If new to it and unfamilar with the ecu in question, then maybe a day. A Months sounds a bit excessive if thats the labour charge you got stung for - Owch..

 

Just to correct.. I ran 260/270 Crane cams in the old Jetta.. Split durations worked well for me. Engine was built for flexibility not max bhp.

 

I can vouch for that Bill being passenger a few times

Ianb

Forgot they were split duration

 

mine was running on a 106 rallye map to get me going,carnt believe its been nearly a year since it was mapped now ive got my diesel back I can finally get to do some work on my own car

 

power delivery and power band are the n/a's trump card. sure you cant touch turbos for tuning potential, but turbo engines usually dish out their torque at low revs and in a "all or nothing" fashion. not very nice during a corner, especially in FWD. ive driven a 260bhp turbo car in fwd mode, it wasnt a pretty site even trying to drive in a straight line. yawing all over the road, grip swapping sides when the turbo spooled up.

ok so a 16v doesnt win in the numbers game, but in this case, for the application, i think it should be considered.

 

My previous experience of FWD Turbo cars was two RSTs that I owned, lots of lag from T3s running over 1 bar

I was pleasently suprised and shocked when Bill B let me have a drive in the Ibiza which only a few minutes before had put down 320+bhp on Stealths rollers, there was little lag and a smooth linear power delivery all the way through (Bill took it to 8000 to demonstrate it would do 80 in 2nd gear!)

Ok even with a Quaife there was a bit of torque steer but nothing like I used to get in the old Escorts!

 

Very Impressive - makes ya think !

I'd have to admit that based on this data, the 268/276 combo looks superior to the straight 276's...+20hp for most of rev range except at >7K - but of course these are on different engines/different cars and its always possible that some of the difference will be down to the level of compression / wear / car specific factors. Nice dataset though.

Cheers

Rob
Edited by: RobT

 

think Barny is on a 50mm manifold, which may well be hurting the low end torque

 

Matt's on a 50mm manifold and looking at those plots I've got a big grin........

Looking forward to Mallory and Stealth

I've never seen a 16 valves torque figure peak like that before and was surprised at the way the torque curve was consistent across the rev band.....nice one Matt

Maybe I can achieve 200 BHP AND 150lbs +_torque....thats my goal.

Ianb

 

My 20VT does'nt drive like this... Not all turbo motors are like this.
>350bhp

 

i admit those tendancies can be ironed out with proper mapping and slip diffs etc, but then that defeats the object of the turbo engine in this instance. i.e not spending loads of cash for the power.

 

Yep. I got stung with 3 1/2 weeks labour @ $60AUD an hour!!! That's why I'm so damn annoyed! I actually considered shipping the car overseas (maybe even to you as I really wanted the DTH rather than the crappy weber style manifold jobbies) to get the job done by someone with VW experience, but thought the cost would be too much, but by this stage, I expected it may take a week or so MAX!

I can't wait til I drop the cams and head in and start getting my money's worth What's most annoying is that if I'd done the conversion myself, I would have been able to afford a proper head and Schricks, plus a Quaife [:^(] [:^(]

Also, the car was mapped on the road and not on a dyno at this stage. They tried to say this was better - what a load of b...cks if you ask me...

 

eh?
How do you mean? Old skool Cossies and RS Fords of the 80's/90's were as you describe.
Thankfully things have moved on.

rechip a 20VT for example and get 200bhp/230lbft torque.

not a slip diff, a torsen diff (ATB Quaife) - user friendly, non snatchy like plate diffs can be.

My 16v Jetta was a good tool on track, and engine pickup and response was superb. The Ibiza is'nt as instant, but it is'nt too bad either. (for a silly turbo car)

I could never have got the Jetta to >350bhp with 320lbft torque, but then again, that in itself just means ytou have a whole othe rlist of things to mod to keep up and stop the thing.. LOL

Slippery slope is'nt it.
Edited by: badger-bill

 

I have supplied a SEAT Ibiza owner in Auz.. the DTH kit. He was using autronic ecu with them. He too has suffered with finding people to build his engine and map it to get decent figures.. Honda's and othe jap stuff is catered for I think he said, but what works on a vtech does'nt cross over on the vw 16v motor.. Import duties hammered him to I think.. Auz $$.

Sounds like there's a shortage of VAG experienced tuners..
Unlucky chap.

Good luck tho... It will all come out in the wash hopefully.
regards
bill

 

That's interesting! I haven't heard of another bloke down here with a t/b'd Ibiza - or VW anything for that matter!

You don't have an email address or anything for him do you? I'd love to get in touch and find out who's working on his car...

Thanks

 

Blimey.. That might be a challenge.. Have'nt exchanged emails for quite some time..
I'll dig around later tonight and point him here..
regards
bill