8v and 16v torque

Discussion in 'Engines' started by deajam, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. deajam Forum Member

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    Sorry, I think I might just scrap that idea for a signature and get something else. Going to try and get a pic and a little comment working like you guys but I've no idea how to do it at the mo.

    :)
     
  2. fthaimike Forum Addict

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    :lol: i knew it would get out of hand soon on this thread ;) .

    The regulars on here dont have standard engines do they :lol: ?

    What i ment to say (but cocked it up as the graph was for standard engine [:$] ) was that the figures quoted by dexteruk dont seem that far off from what i have but mine probablly cost x3 more than his engine but with money an 8v can be pretty quick.

    A question: do all vw engines come with phospher bronze valve guides?
     
  3. Jettin' Forum Member

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    Its only the exhaust valves that are sodium filled.

    There were some 8v's with sodium valves, but these were G60's.
     
  4. jc.. Forum Member

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    my mistake, I was thinking of G60's sodium exhaust valves
     
  5. deajam Forum Member

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    [​IMG]

    I think this is what most people were expecting wasn't it???? It's maybe a good graph of how it mite FEEL because of the 16v giving such a good output higher up the revs making the lower revs seem lacking but as we can see from the acctual torque graph the 16v has more torque throughout.

    Standard of course. But it's all about tuning so this is all just academic really cuz, like Mike said, how many of us drive standard cars!
     
  6. edc1 Forum Member

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    If you look at various 8v and 16v graphs then that is pretty much the case IMO. The 16v graph is perceived to be much steeper and linear too but many I've seen are not like that but as flat as an 8v just higher up. I always reasoned that it was the 16v having more to give that makes it feel perhaps flat low down. However, in your 'actual' graph it's debatable whether the 8v curve would be a fraction higher than the 16v at <2-2.5k rpm
     
  7. KeithMac Forum Junkie

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    [​IMG]

    There`s mine before and after the kents, seems to build up gradually right until about 6800 rpm. This was with a magnex full sysytem mind.
     
  8. mark25 Forum Junkie

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    I was. Must be something in the gearing that means the 8v boys recon they can "catch out a valver driver", (no pun intended) if he/she is not on the ball.
    M.
     
  9. Joe_G Forum Member

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    No, Mk2 8v and 16v boxes are identical apart from 5th when the 16v is slightly lower geared. (19.9 vs 20.5 MPH/1000rpm IIRC).

    Joe
     
  10. KeithMac Forum Junkie

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    The thing with "catching someone out" is that it`s not really the car that`s the problem, even with 2 8 valves together if one is ready and decides to gun it from the start, the other car`s bound to come off worse.

    I mean I could quite happily hold mine to 60 in second, but that`s not normal driving really!
     
  11. Tubthumped Forum Junkie

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    Try and catch me out... I'm always flat out! ;) :lol:
     
  12. deajam Forum Member

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    The "acctual" graph is a copy of the one shown on page 2 of this thread from a book called Jetzt mache ich ihn schneller which after research I believe is direct from Volkswagen. If you look at the photo of this graph closely you will see that both torque plots start at the same point but the 16v has a steeper rate of climb right from the start and is never intersected by the 8v plot.

    I have a friend who is head mechanic at my local VW garage and sholud be getting me the official Torque graphs for both the PU(8v) and KR(16v)engines soon I,ve also written to VW but I don't hold out any hope of a reply from them.

    I'll post any thing i get from either source here as soon as i get it.
     
  13. deajam Forum Member

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    My Mk1 very often caught out valver drivers but it was the engine mods that caught them out not just me. :lol:

    Thats before the piston came through the water pump 200 miles from home! [:^(]
     
  14. edc1 Forum Member

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    I know your 'actual' graph is 'official' but I'm just trying to put a more realistic spin on it as of those engines you see which actually drive on the road. Some 8v graphs I've seen produce a fraction more torque than the 16v up to about say 2.5k rpm but it's nothing to write home about, like the lines are often almost touching.
     
  15. deajam Forum Member

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    Thats due to wear, fuel, state of tune when it came from the factory, tolerances etc. I don't think you'll find any same spec standard Gti's out there that are still running to the factory figures. Some 8v's putout 112bhp some put out 115bhp and there mite both be perfectly standerd. When comparing things like this you have to work with the ideals. What the book says as it were, not real cars. :)
     
  16. fthaimike Forum Addict

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    I'd like to see how different the graph is between an 8v & 16v that are both running the same 170+bhp & 150+lb ft.
    (even though one costs a lot less than the other).
     
  17. velly_16v_cab

    velly_16v_cab Forum Junkie

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    how many 8v's are running a 'true' 170 bhp @ fly???


    ;) [:s] ;)
     
  18. edc1 Forum Member

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    That's what I am saying, that it's probably more representative to look at cars in the real world rather than one lifted from the factory!
     
  19. fthaimike Forum Addict

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    :lol:

    EDIT:what would an 8v with 135-140atw usually get at the fly or one with 150ft lb? :lol:
    Edited by: fthaimike
     
  20. velly_16v_cab

    velly_16v_cab Forum Junkie

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    different car lose different power in transmission.

    my last run i lost 50bhp!!! [:s]
     

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