Darling's 2k incentive to scrap your motor..

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed more on here tbh.

For those who've been asleep for the past few months, this is the plan to offer an incentive of 2k to people with old cars who scrap them in order to buy a new vehicle, on the basis that it will stimulate the car industry and make the environment all shiney and clean. Times linky


I think this idea is a sack of sh*t for several reasons:


The economic argument:

The UK car industry does not need stimulating. After years of people needlessly and frivilously buying new cars on credit, the market has become saturated, credit has dried up and we are experiencing a correction.

People need to understand that they don't need (and can't have) a new car every ten minutes on credit when they earn bugger all. It's this mentality that's got us all in the sh*t with houses etc. It's an un-natural and unsustainable situation.

In addition to this, after spending billions bailing the bloody banks out, it's more money out of the taxpayers pockets. I personally don't want to help Barry buy more expensive stuff on credit that he doesn't need.

This is also potentially going to sh*t on those with very little money as it will drive up the value of old, 2nd hand cars.


The environmental arguement:

Like for like, there's no arguement that new cars give better fuel economy that those that are 10+ yrs old. But what about the energy it costs to create a new car from scratch? To manufacture and transport the parts, assemble them and deliver the vehicle? And also the energy it takes to dismantle and dispose of the old vehicle?

I don't have the means to work it out, but I'd imagine it'd take a fair few years at 60mpg vs. 45mpg to recoup all the energy expended in creating your new Ford fiesta and scrapping the old one.


General feasilbility:

I'm aware that this plan has worked well in mainland europe, so might be off the mark here. I think that people with proper old 150 sheds will struggle to find the funds to buy a new car, and will lack the financial stability to absorb the several grand depreciation hit of buying a new car. As with easy credit it's leading greed and materialism by the nose.

Those with newer cars that are worth nearer the 2k incentive will be needlessly scrapping perfectly servicable cars that could have given years of reliable use.. back to the environmental argument.


The enthusiast's argument:

From a selfish point of view I can see this getting rid of a lot of perfectly good, nice old motors off the roads (think of what old skool lovelyness you can pick up for under 2 grand) with the additional hit that there will be less scrap cars available to donate much needed obsolete parts to keep our beloved dubs going in the future.

I know a Mk2 Gti is a bit different to 10yr old cooking fester or clio for example, but would anyone on here actually consider chopping their car in under this scheme?


Ultimately a w*nk idea IMO

Discuss.

 

Couldn't have put it better any other way

Besides it wont just stimulate British Industry

 

people that have been buying cars on finance with a massive balloon payment at the end, thinking it's great because they can just give the car back at the end of three years and 'start' again are mugs and have been helping develop the new car market way beyong what people can actually afford to sustain.

 

Probably won't happen, and even if it did, won't affect that many people. People run 10+ year old cars because they can't afford a new car, 2000 isn't going to make any difference because there will still be the other 14,000 or so to buy a new one.

 

are they gona be crushed or can we get a look in for parts?

im sure the purcahse price will be ajusted so that you dont win out of it anyway

wouldnt be so bad if it was 2k off a english made car

 

They'll be crushed afaik.

 

That 2k 'incentive' goes up in smoke the minute you drive off the forecourt.
Worst idea in quite some time.

 

been watching it with interest. as potentially going to take advantage of it with a 10 year old car thats worth about 700 on current market rates. however im really not sure that i can stomach the payments/depreciation on a brand new car...

i think some of the rumours about it are unfounded. the vehicle you recycle(as far as i know it has to to go a specific place to be recycled, not scrapped. recycle = use as many spare parts off it as possible then break down constituent parts for recycle)

any car used in the scheme must be registered to you for over a year. the 2k price ticket will be on new and nearly new cars. (pre-registered with delivery miles probably)

lets face it theres not going to be a mad rush on this as 99% of peope will still need finance which is linked to banks and other economic things. how many people with ready cash have 9+ year old cars? how many people can afford or can commit to finance on a new car who own 9+ year old cars

theres a bit of merit in the idea but it's not going to work as well as they think. id have thought to cover the environment angle it should have been only on the less polluting car sales only? it may defeat the purpose if i spank it on a full fat clio 197.


as an example of how fecked the car industry is....
my old man has a friend of a friend, he bought a 70k range rover last year. he just had to kick up stink in the dealer ship for them to take it as a trade in. they only gave him 19k for it. thats serious depreciation...

 

Yes. I paid $550 for my 1.6 Driver. I could buy a nice, shiny GTi with that $2000.

Wait never mind, I've just read the actual article. Thought it was cash in hand, not a stupid rebate.

Eff that then. I'm keeping my gross polluter.

 

The times appear to have it wrong, all other information and the existing scheme in Germany gives the trade in for cars no older than 9 years old.

Which makes a lot more sense financially so I'd imagine thats what he will do.

 

it seems to have worked quiet well in Europe, I've not read the whole thing, but they'll no doubt sell it on a environmental basis I.E. only on sub 120 Co2's per KM or whatever the measurement is and we don't really make many cars like that in the UK.

Not only that, can we, as a country afford it? For every 500 cars sold it'll cost the UK 1m.

The Car companies aren't stupid ether, they've all quietly started to push their prices up so it'll mostly be going to them.

I would make a fundemental change in the market for bangers though, if you're in the market for a new car, you're not going to part-ex your 4 year old family car, you're gonna buy a 250 15 year old hatchback and part-ex it for 2k. I would say within days of it starting any roadworthly car in the UK will be worth a 1k to someone.

 

yeah so all the 300 bangers that poor folk run because thats all they can afford sudenly become worth 1000 + overnight and squeeze all those people out of owning a cheap car

 

but the government doesnt make any tax from those 300 bangers changing hands at the moment. the government could give a **** that it will cut a portion of the market out from buying the cheap cars.

but it would have a knock on effect i recon. it will become like the housing market where no first time buyers means the chain cant move on.

 

you'd think in this current climate you could get 2k knocked off the price anyway?

wasn't so long ago that car places were doing 1k trade ins no matter what the car was that you brought in.
you could neogiate that discount without a trade in.


anyway like the bail out the banks had, do the public now not own all these cars sat on the airfields around the country?

 

Yeah it's easy to get 20% off anything at the moment, more on higher end stuff.

But as this is cash-money coming from the government you should still get the discount from the dealer, as much as they're all villainous *******s cars dealers still do need to get people in through the door.

TBH I think it'll be passed as at the moment its more important for the government to be seen to be doing something, but as above we should be working towards longer-term solutions and away from short-term credit culture, but there's an infrastructure to pay for.

In the larger economy I hear lots of people saying we can't afford to "reinflate the bubble" but that's really what's got to happen. It's happened in every downturn since year dot and it's starting to happen again. You hear about house prices rising slightly last quarter as good news, when most people realise that another 20% drop is needed to make actually living in the UK possible without increasing personal debt year on year.
Once the downturn is over its then up to a strong government to make the changes to make sure it doesn't over inflate again, but Politicians being what they are, it's hardly a vote winner to clamp down on business when people are starting to feel the wealth again. I dare say there will be some lip-service paid to it, followed by a new law with easy to find loopholes and in 2015 or so we'll be here again staring at the abyss. I would bet anyone 100 that by 2012 it will be possible to get a 6x income, 100% funding self-cert mortgage using some loophole or other.

 

What the fudge, Ill take that bet.

as for car companies, they make a car for 700 to 900 cost and add a 0 onto the sale price (fact from when I worked at toyota)
Do I have sympathy for them? no.

 

its worth a pack of jaffa cakes, i'll take that bet too.

 

after being in a mates toyota aygo, i think that should be more like two 0's added on

 

Ok, you and Jonp 50 each? I'll set a diary reminder for 14/04/12.

 

and I'll leave a note for the milkman.