Funkbaron's MK2 Golf 24v V6 (Now Breaking)

never thought of getting the ecu decoded?

 

To delete post-cat lambda probes and immobilisor? Yeh, I've thought of that suprisingly enough. But, I'll be able to get it running on the standard management happily first, as I have all the parts required from the donor. Also, as I intend to run a supercharger, I'll look at management/ecu options then. This is something I'm tinkering with over a long haul and not a car I expected to have running in a week. Plenty of people running factory management on 20vt swaps, with clocks/immob/transponder - this engine is exactly the same setup in that respect.

 

I had a good chat with storm developments, and he reckons you will never ever reach the proper power levels trying to run the ECU in the car like that. I did the same with my corrado and argued that it went fine and had no errors, but no, he persisted in telling me that without all the other systems it will pull the timing back like mad and will never fun at full potential. in fact, he said if you keep an eye on the ign timing on vag com you can see just how much it's pulling, and susptained abuse in conditions like that mean running dangerously lean and the EGT's go through the roof.

thinking back, he's right, as my mk4 with the 3.2 always felt quicker than the corrado ever did, with the same motor.....worth a thought.

 

Phat, are you talking about if you get the immobilisor and lambdas deleted? Mines all staying factory, there's very few things i've removed relating to the ECU wiring, mostly cruise-control switch wiring etc - nothing that should effect the performance in any way.

 

no, just if you try and run it in a car without all the other ecu's, like the ABS and stuff.

 

Interesting - I might have to do some more research into that then, I didn't even consider the ABS control unit would have any significant effect on the running of the engine. Did you run a standard mk4 ECU and just get these things deleted from it to prevent the fault codes, or use after-market management? I'm led to believe Storm run all there cars on an Emerald setup.

 

Vehicle speed sensor plays a part apparently, can you remember if you ran one Paul in the Corrado? You've pi$$ed on my strawberries a bit to be honest as I'm not far off wiring the oe ecu up on my latest 20v gash up.

 

i was running all 4 lambda's, with just the immob defeat, and the CAN gate set so it didn't speak to the ABS, 4WD, airbags, etc etc. I never ran the secondary air pump. made no difference whether it was there or not.

It seemed to run clean and go well enough, with no codes. but the mk4 was just on another level. for a heavier car it just felt so much quicker, a proper horizon chaser, you just ran out of road.

Now, i did have schrick cams and AmD remap in it by the time it was in the mk4, but i also reverted to a stock motor in that car later, i tried both, so i know the cams weren't producing a massive amount of power.

however, when the superchip packed in on the mk4 on the stock motor i had a new chip fitted, with the stock map, and it felt as flat as a fart after that and i sold it!

who knows, maybe he was just trying to sell me an emerald (obviously he was, and i was interested which is why i was ther all afternoon talking about it!) but this guy seemed to have a hell of a lot of experience with these engines and can get the best out of them, and is dead against using the factory management.

he was saying there is like 10 different maps in the stock ecu, an it'll switch between them all the time depending on conditions and driving style. but if it's not happy, it'll drop into the duff map. not exatcly a limp home mode, just a very poor state of tune.

he was adamant my corrado wasn't even producing the stock 240bhp. I know the cammed motor in the mk4 had 265, so I'm inclined to agree.

I'd love to know what JBS would say as they run all their on OEM, but when i was having trouble with mine ans asked him he was convinved it was the map and it wasn't, it was just a missing speed signal to the ECU......unless they have some special trick up their sleeves that we don't know about?

 

oe management has got to be the way to go tho , a aftermarkets ecu has no limp mode so it could cause the engine to fail or am i talking bollox ?

 

depends how clever it is (or isn't).

 

Arrrrrggggghhhh! I've spent many hours going thorugh wiring diagrams, sorting out what was and wasn't needed, I don't need this info right now I'm going to stick to my guns and follow it through as is, given my wiring is almost done, see what fault codes are thrown up and then make a trip to a decent tuner and see what the outcome is on the diags/RR. I can see the ABS is linked to the ECU via CAN wires....which is a little worrying - I thought the VSS signals were all present from the vr6 speedo sender on the 02a gearbox, same setup as the VSS on the VR6 swap, just a few more wires leading off it.

 

I have varied opinions on this, having run two 18t's on oe and dta managements I know which I'd prefer. In my opinion the oe management is far more advanced....probably due to emissions laws this can be a pain but I think will see the engine running far better. Aftermarket management is a lot better these days with inputs for knock and varible cam timing etc.....but will work out more costly than fitting an engine and loom straight out of a doner vehicle. If mapped well there is no reason why an aftermarket system can't be capeable of being as good.

I'm sure there are a few people on here that would go into a lot more detail with some more sound advice than mine!

 

fault codes will be clear. that's not what you look at.

he did tell me exactly which blocks to watch on VAG COM but i can't remeber now. just that he said it was pulling back the ign timing a shocking amount.

what's VSS? i took my speedo signal from the gearbox sender, not the ABS.

 

surley vw have spent alot of time and a hell of alot of money on getting it right ? the amount of cars they sell im sure they don't want everyother car coming in for a complete re-build ?

a mate of mine has a 20vt on dta that has been killed 3 times . a man in a back road garage spending a few nights going threw a map can not be as good .

my thought only !

funk im with you on oe p.s looking fwd to seeing the car s/c sounds good

 

Just finishing off a Mk2 VR conversion and the 24v swap is a future plan of mine so will be watching this closely. looks good mate, keep up the good work.

 

i was on about aftermarket stuff....i.e. that cheap crap, which won't have any kind of limp home measures.

 

Vehicle speed sensor - which I've also taken from the gearbox sender - where else would you get it???

Vento Mike - I'm pretty sure the gearbiox senders are the same 4 wire layout - but let me double-check this on elsa and report back tomorrow to be 100% accurate.

Anyway, the input is much appreciated from all corners. We need more mk4 into CE2/hybrid loom/aftermarket management wiring info on this forum, no doubt about it.

 

3 wire.

pin 1 and 3 are live and earth, centre pin 2 is the blue/white speedo pulse.

 

Was sure it was three wires. Wasn't sure if the later stuff had four.