i bought a C4 now with pics

my opinion on the french car is the same as quite a few on here, as well as various unbiased car mags, motoring progs - not built very well!!! i'm sure there are a few on here that trade in these cars as well as various vw's but the general opinion is - they're not very good!!! and this opinion is based on cars when new - let after 10yrs!! i know of a chap that has a mint 205 gti 1.9, proper sought after car with low miles and low owners, all org spec. looks mint from afar but has a few marks on it. this thing has even won trophies like this. so god knows what the other are like. personally i reckons that at vw events, the standards of trophy winners are higher by miles!!!!

yeah the car was a better drivers car but no way is it the better car!!! no french car was!!! it does get respectable glances when hes out in it - but thats only because theres hardly any 205's on the roads today std or gti!!! its the same with this std mint mk3 xr3i we see around - we admire it because hardly any around. so i'm afraid i'm gonna stick with the majority opinion on this blinkered or not vw's are miles better than anything french - on the whole!!!!

 

car looks nice gorilly!!

im with gringo on the mk3/306 argument. drive a mk3 td and then a 306 d turbo, the 306 was years ahead when it came to quick refined diesels. the ride is better, they handle better and they dont really rust atall, wheres the mk3, which ive owned a few of are awfull for rust.
french cars arent really made to do huge mileage or last more than 12 years, but there cheaper to start with so.....

 

People seem to confuse the cheap little french cars which VW dont produce a comparable car against, such as the Saxo's etc that can be bought for less than 6k brand new and tarnish all the others. These are built on a tight budget and they do skimp on bits but this thread show just how little people know/are completely blinkered thinking that French cars are crap. I would'nt expect a 6k car to last 15 years.

French car designer are among the most innovative and forward thinking designers out there. There cars always fair better in th NCAP saftey ratings to start with. They also last very well considering how much they cost to purchase in the first place against the equivalent VW.
This isnt to offend anyone but VW have had some real Turkeys that they have released.

The Golf Rallye- probably one of the biggest laughing stocks Rallying has ever seen. The road going version is heavy and underpowered and unless fettled incredibly dull to drive. It also had G-lader which lasted 40k if you were lucky

The Mk3 Golf- A car VW produced, followed by the Mk4 that completey ruined the whole GTI badge, big badge on the front and a price tag that went with them and you got f*ck all for it. VW arent neccesarily better and more reliable than any other brand out there- its down to personal taste. The Mk3 is the biggest turkey to be produced by VW lets face it.

I would say BMW is probably only one of the only German brands out there that built there reliability reputation and continue to back it up today.

 

agree with you that the mk3 and mk4 probably tarnished the vw gti status, would personally go for diesel or normal version if i had a choice, but french cars continue to fall on the low end of a list when it comes to jd power typed surveys. this says that generally, their owners are more dissatisfied with them, regarding car, service dealers etc... you cant ignore this!!!! these from owners at a more national level!!!

 

Shows how little you know.

 

Not to bring this thread back to a few posts ago but i am not compairing to VW specifically, as i said before, i cant stand the MK3 Golf, or the MK4 for that matter and i'd say the MK3 is one of the worst modern VW's that they have built in terms of reliability and build quality....

In terms of design inovation, i would hardly say that the current group of PSA designers are forward thinking and inotive (Pug designers that is, Citreon are producing a few very nice looking cars at the min, notably the C2 and C4) All you need to do is compair the 207, 308 (coming v soon) and 407 to see that they are basically the same design with the size changed as you go further up the range......

207


308


407


See what i mean??? All a bit 'samey' isnt it....

Then if we compare the pricing of say, the 407 2.0 HDI Sport to the Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Zetec (Good comparise imo as they are in the same sector of the market, similarly specced and priced) we find that that Pug is 19817 and the Mondeo is 18395. I mean would you pay 1500 more for the pug over the new Ford Mondeo??? I know i wouldnt!!!!!!!!

I have no experience of the most up to date models but if i compare my experienced of the 406 and the MK2 and MK3 mondeo i'd choose the Mondeo (either shape) 100 times over the 406..... cheap, nasty and very uncomfortable i found the pug.

This post is based on fact and my opinion so if i am still gonna be tarred as blinkered then please explain why []

 

damo you can say that about any current car brand.

vw, audi, bmw, mecerdes, ford etc, all do it, its all about brand perception and recognition

 

yes you can, but at this moment in time we are talking French car makers, specifically PSA/ Peugeot......

maybe i should stay away from this thread, i have just bought my g/f a 306 HDi afteral

 

theres alot of ****e being talked about mk3's in here, what a load of crap.

build quality - mines fine
interior quality - better than other manufacturers best efforts from this year, let alone 12 years ago!
bad handling - mine was fine before the coilovers, magazines say it handled better than the 306 as well

doesn't deserve the gti badge, what aload of *******s as well, probably not slower than mk2 gtis in standard trim, and people going on about it being big and ugly, it's no bigger than a mk2, it's the same ****ing size, all whats different are the panels are ****ing rounded and not squared!

 

nowt wrong with the mk3 itself wez - but i'd go for vr6 in this model. to me personally the gti, although a nice comfortable solid car, didn't warrant the higher insurance premiums (they probably had) like the mk1s/mk2s did. but they're still miles better than anything french. i agree you probably get some great 306's still around, likewise there are duff golfs out there. but in general vw's are miles more better put together than any of the french cars have been. yeah they may not have more extras than french cars, but if they're put in using cr*p quality materials they wont work after a while - whats the point in that???

 

Cr@p talk on cgti?!.....surely not!

 

I think the GTI issue stems from the Mk2 2.0 8v... the 16v and VR are great engines!!! Same with the MK4, the 1.8 20v N/A and 2.0 engined cars should never have been badged as GTI's and VW realise this, hence the way the MK5 GTI has been marketed.....

I'd defo disagree about a standard MK3 GTI handling better than a 306 XSi/GTI/S16/D-Turbo.... all of the 306's ive driven have handled superbly!!!!

 

seraph i think you should present the weakest link... i only read cgti for your great one liners!

your the only person i know who can give a one liner to finish all conversations! and you always seem to be right, do you really live in the martix?

 

The question is surely not 'do I live there',....but 'is it even real' ?!



Mmmmmm, I've always wondered about a career in the media too....

 

the 306's i've been in weren't that hot, only xsi and hdi, but still.....

if that's everyones only problem with the mk3, why did you, and others say it's the worst thing vw had ever made period, including all mk3 models?

and if the 8v mk3 isn't a real gti, what about the mk2 8v gti? that's underpowered as well, at least compared to the 16v, it's not a "real" gti, is it?!

 

Im going to pipe in here. The Mk3 is probably the one of the most unispiring (not worst)cars VW made and i know this probably causes offense but when people come out with things like all French cars are crap then it needs to be said.

The Mk2 8v was fun to drive and went reasonably well and looked the part the Mk3 8 valve was incredibly dull to drive. Ive lost count of how many threads of people who have recently bought a Mk3 and complain about how slow and how theyve instantly beocome dissatisfied with its performance and what can they do to make it any better.Ask Tubs or GVK who have been on track with the 306's and they will tell you how good they are.


This wasnt the original dipute though- it was that all french cars are poorly built and its complete nonsense. I just sold a 1998 406 coupe last week with 140k on the clock that drove like a new car and surprise surprise nothing was falling off of it. The week before that i punted on a little 93 306 1.4 with 108k on it and that to was faultless and even as a crappy model, RN or something was quite fund to chuck around.

 

mk2 8v's are quick!!!! when they came out, they pipped em up against proper hot hatches!!!

i remember one top gear roughly when the mk3 was out, jc was doing a report on a bog-std 1.6 toyota corolla (non-sporty model), they put it on a test track against a mk3 for a traffic light gp - the toyota won!!!

theres no way a mk2 would get whooped by a boggo corolla!!!

i dont think some of the other european countries labelled them as gtis either!!! is this right????

i think overall they were good cars though, if only they weren't badged as gti's which bumps up all running costs on em!!!!

 

on mainland europe, the 8v mk3 was just badged as 2.0 or as a GT

 

For me it is given the overal package.... The MK3 doesnt look great, VR and ABF aside, it doesnt go great when compared to the opposition and has serious quality issues accociated with it. The MK2 1.8 8v was a class leader in its time with only the Pug 205 GTI 1.6 and the Ford XR's as its competition.... When they moved up a gear VW launched the 16v to stay competative!!

As has been said, the MK3 8v GTI was so sh*t that it wasnt even badged as a GTI in Europe, only here as they knew they would sell loads to the gullible english who buy cars largely for the badge stuck on the back!!!!!

 

quality wise, how do you justify your views? these things are close to bullet proof. even with silly suspension and polys, mine is pretty much rattle free, but then it does have rust over the windscreen, but then it has got 166k miles worth of stone chips