Isaac - 1992 MK2 Golf GTI 8v...

Getting closer... plumbed in the water pipes this PM.

All a good fit save for the short one from the water pump to the radiator bottom.

It's a Gates 3473, bought on the basis 7zap gives it as the equivalent of 191 121 051 F which is listed for PB's without aircon / prep. for same, such as mine.

Obviously doesn't fit, though the top one does, it's a Gates also.

Radiator is a Hella 8MK 376 713-304 ( H. 322mm x W. 522mm core, approx W. 610mm, including the end pieces).

Good fit too and I believe it's to standard dimensions.

Looked up the aircon pump to rad. version according to 7zap and it's 191 121 051 P

The misfiting one I have is 220cm long and the Gates (3557) aircon version is 330mm, but confusingly there's a second Gates (05-1024) aircon. version also quoted as equivalent to 191 121 051 P but it's 375mm.

Hard to tell, but images of the two aircon. ones do look to have the right profile to curl back around and reach the rad.

Said above, times against me and don't want to waste it (or money) getting another wrong one, then waiting further for a third.

Anyone have a rough idea of the unwound length of the correct pipe - 330mm or 375mm?

Don't want to just plump for the longer one for the sake of it, space is limited and potentially might be too long and clash with the oil filter.

No.1 below...

 

Was cross referencing with Autodoc last night, not always accurate but can be useful sometimes...

They give Gates 3473 as for Swedish / Swiss carb. models up to '87!

Having said that it's also cross referenced to OE number 191 121 051 F, confused things even more.

The corrugated pipe is protecting the alternator lead, just resting there... misleading picture, sorry.

The rad. end of the Gates pipe is level with its inlet, but about 7cm to one side / too short.

Good to get confirmation that the rad. itself is correct, was starting to wonder.

Looking like I've just the wrong pipe altogether, Gate's cataloguing has thrown me off - someone elses 191 121 051 F will likely solve it.

Thanks again.

 

Resurrected the original old VW pipes to see were I went wrong...

Did check all this at the time and as I wanted Gates cross ref'd. with their numbers and the ones I got showed as equivalents.

Lower VW is marked 191 121 051 F

Upper VW is marked 191 121 101 S

Now mentioning the upper because I've since discovered the Gates for it too isn't correct (to my car at any rate).

The ends might correspond to where they should and its shape means it'll reach naturally without bending etc., but the path it takes means the dip stick can't be fitted as it's slot is directly below.

Been down this path before... no matter how careful you are checking / asking / ordering - some makers can just get it wrong.

 

Down to the wire now, MOT is about 9 days away and still not started the engine.

Got all ready, fluids etc. etc. a week ago to discover the water flange on the side of the block was leaking.

Did intend to get a new one, but had a new rubber gasket left over from elsewhere.

New one ordered and 7 days later, still not here... fuming with Royal Mail.

Forged on with getting as much else as possible done, so electrics today.

Lights were playing up but got to the bottom of 95% of it.

Bit that's got me stumped are the front and rear fogs.

This is a really brief run down - neither will come on, dash switch tell tale doesn't illuminate at first click (front) but will for second (rear).

All other lights work 100% and main light switch not frazzled etc.

The bizarre bit is the washer pump comes on if you press the fog switch (1st and 2nd click)

All fuses checked, inc. correct ratings... 100%

Horn doesn't work either, though relay 53 audibly clicks / can be felt switching.

Swopped it and the other relay 53 about, problem the same for each.

Washer pump won't work from the wiper stalk (front or rear) but all the other features do - intermittent / slow, fast etc.

I have other gauges etc, which appear to work (insofar as you can tell without a running engine) - they are not spliced into anything - run off their own fuse box / feed directly from battery.

I've disconnected all of that, but problem still as before.

It's an odd one and hard to explain, sorry... but any off the wall ideas / thoughts might help before I have to use up more time I don't have digging deeper.

Cheers.

 

Check horn plug for power, or direct connection to horn to test, mine went pop on its test and they replaced it with an awful one. Allie's Green golf had a funny 5 minutes where horn wouldn't work so I wired up the relay instead of direct (base model) and it still didn't work, unplugged it all, reconnected and was fine, must have been dirty contacts.
Not sure where contacts are for washer pump on switch but minis used to oxidise and just needed a clean up of the copper there, or again check supply to it in case a broken wire.

 

Result... thanks all.

Washer pump and fog light connection were indeed the wrong way about, plus one of the horn terminals was mixed up in there somewhere too, don't ask!

Gave the terminals an extra good clean too.

All a hangover from the wiring labels evaporating, hopefully that's the end of that legacy... has caused sooo much pain.

Water flange still not here, and todays post has been.

Going to have to try and get another from elsewhere sent asap / express delivery.

Ripping with the RM, everything takes an age to arrive. I've got that if it's avoidable I'll not buy from sellers who use them for this exact reason.

Bought some OEM+ stickers a few days ago,(check out their site for the excellent stuff).

Turns out they're based in Macedonia, and it arrived today from the other side of Europe in half the time RM can get something across the Irish sea.

Rant over.

 

Over all a good day, a few set backs but on the whole a lot closer.

After much a*se puckering, checking and triple checking turned the key... and sod all!

Rare moment of clarity and remembered the 2 x terminals on the starter, swapped about and straight into life.

Then a leak from the rocker cover, corner where earth strap to coil is attached.

Not much, but pissed all down the exhaust manifold and smoke everywhere.

Turned out to be the stud at the same corner hadn't been tightened up at the machine shop, and no matter how tight the cover nut was oil could still seep below the middle point.

Luckily had a spare gasket or else I'd have been snookered trying to get another in time but all good again.

Wouldn't be normal if there wasn't a problem - temp gauge is rising to 3rd marker quite quickly / warning light begins flashing.

Can't say for certain, as there was a bit of a panic on because of the smoke, but I don't think the fan kicked in at any point.

Have tested it and low / high speed works fine if connected directly to power.

All new Hella sensors. New thermoswitch / thermostat / radiator / pipes etc.

Coolant spot on and topped up as nessessary (very little)

Will get all the specs., part numbers gathered up just to double ckeck everythings correct. Be first to admit it took me a while to get my head around those when being bought, may well have got it wrong.

Stopped there for the day, car sitting on cardboard overnight to check for spots... fingers crossed.

 

Thick with dust, but least of my worries at the moment.

 

Can't be said enough, Rubjonny's timing instructions are gold.

Still early stages for me understanding this sort of thing, but getting there.

Bought a timing light and while not yet reached the point of using it have marked the camshaft OT end piece from a template that came with it.

Is it coincidence or intentional that the spars tally exactly with 30 degrees / 40 degrees and so on?

 

No drips on the cardboard this AM, so went ahead with another start up and the water temp. quickly went back up to beyond normal.

There had previously been a very small weep from the front flange that houses the 2 x sensors.

It was the original, but with a new Elring O ring and nipping it up seemed to have fixed it.

Learned my lesson with the other flange however and had fortunately ordered a new one yesterday (and paid more than the same again for RM 24 hour Special Delivery so as to have it before lunch time today, just in case), plus it would be spare if not needed.

Tracking says it'll now be Saturday because of the jubilee weekend, probably going to cost me making the MOT deadline!

I'm guessing even the smallest leak will compromise the pressurisation of the cooling system to cause overheating and possible it's the culprit of my overheating?

The rad. top pipe gets hot, but not so much you can't touch it, while the lower stays cold... so thermostat not reaching opening temp?

Fluid in expansion tank is cold.

Heater pipes and others also (touchably) hot.

Gauge rises quite quickly, this is all within about 5 mins. or less.

Since found a small crack in the flange (as I did the only other original which also gave me bother), had obviously checked both and nothing visible... guessing after having been dry and dormant for 12 years the heat / pressure of using them again was too much.

Since the leak is exactly where the sensor is could it be causing the localised boiling of the fluid at that point / activate the warning light even though it's not over heated elsewhere in the system?

 

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to read it all, but yes, bottom pipe cold indicates a stat not opening.

I had one overheating once though, due to a dodgy water pump housing.
The impeller was too far from the opposite housing, and the coolant was cavitating more so than circulating.
Took a bit of head scratching to figure out, and swapping a few pumps between housings to get it right. We weren't able to get a complete pump and housing from VW at the time.


Re the spars, and timing, interesting observation.

 

That would be sad, if it were the water pump... New in, but if I've learned anything doing this car, don't assume because it's new it works.

Can't find it straight away again, but did read something recently to do with MK2 timing that referred to 30 degrees being significant, maybe it is a marker put there by VW?

 

The new front flange arrived today... both a day late (should've been here yesterday) and a day early (was re-scheduled for delivery tomorrow).

So on and leak sorted, to be replaced by another new drip at one of the heater pipes, engine bulkhead side.

Likely an ill fitting spring clamp and an easy fix, just a fiddly place now that the coil etc. are all back on.

Replaced the new water temp. gauge sensor (black) with the original 1991 item and another problem fixed... dodgy one then.

Glad in a way, simple fix and means I hadn't stressed the new engine innards after all.

Looking closely at it, wondering is it a counterfeit. Bought it a while ago, can't recall who from now but plan to trawl the receipts to find out.

Will stick up an image, see what you think. I know standards have sometimes slipped and big name companies like Hella have been bought over and / or production can be from anywhere.

 

Sort of a follow on about the cam belt...

Pic. again from earlier post but to show its position on the wheel, this was taken before the engine was started for the first time.

The second image is of it after starting / being run for a while.

Usual inter-web varying opinions found, but mainly saying as long as the belt's entirely on the wheel it's immaterial if it's position is centered or not... correct?

Also over tensioning can cause the belt to 'walk', if I've understood some opinions?

I've tensioned this one as per the 90 degree twist method, I'm confident it's not over tightened, but always open to guidance.

The white line running along the center of the belt in the second image coincides with the groove on the new tensioner pully, rubs off with your finger.

 

... and that suspect Hella sensor.

Dot matrix style 'HELLA' look a little dodgy to me, but maybe that's how things are nowadays?

 

Third query...

I fought with the gear linkage most of yesterday and am happy I've it set up 100%.

Have the little tool needed to place the fastening bolt in the correct place plus fine tuned the gear stick end of things using the eccentric adjuster.

When engine is off, will move in and out of 1st through to 5th fine (not slick, but no real resistance either)

Reverse is a little bit temperamental, maybe straight in 5 times out of 10 otherwise takes a harder push but will go.

When you start the engine reverse will crunch just before engaging and 1st / 2nd / 4th and 5th are unobtainable... 3rd will engage cleanly / no effort.

Gearbox was out, new full clutch kit / push rod and release bearing / refilled per instructions. Reverse detent bolt not touched.

New self adjusting cable.

I'm just not happy the cable's disengaging drive 100% - I've read of problems with these.

It was fitted per instructions, care was taken not to release the tension before time and it can be retensioned with the strap correctly.

Would the fact the change works with the engine off and them refuses with the engine on be caused by cable not disengaging fully as it should / any other potential causes?