MK1 Zender Monologue...

Discussion in 'Mk1' started by Zender Z20, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Looking into throttle bodies a bit more and getting myself confused in the process.

    Am I right in saying you can upgrade in stages if you want?

    In the case of the Audi one you mention, can adding it alone while keeping your existing WUR (realise the Audi one has a vacuum port) and it'll still work / help, but just not as much as if you also upgraded to the corresponding WUR?

    Additional improvements like gasflowing the head and / or the intake manifold will increase the gains further?

    Basically asking if you need to do the TB and WUR together or will replacing the TB alone still work (just not get the same improvements)?
     
  2. AKAeddypeck Forum Member

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    Have you got the Haynes Golf GTI Performance manual? Written by Tim Stiles of TSR fame. There might be some ideas in there.
     
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  3. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    You got me loft diving and I do have it... years of buying tat on eBay's finally paying off!
     
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  4. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    yeah you can add either upgrade on its own and tune to suit, with any upgraded tb a little inlet grinding is in order so it matches up. some have gone a step further and added the g60 inlet, though not sure how much benefit that adds except for the larger hole for the tb plus you would have to make a hole for your 5th injector and yeah, its too new for your 'period correct' plans anyway
     
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  5. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    The Neuspeed TB with the adapter plate seems to fit the brief... not mad on having to grind out the inlet maifold, though I suppose I could get a stand in one as a spare in case I ever wanted to revert back to standard, but that's adding more expense / complications.

    Found a few images / articles about the Neuspeed TB (mainly VWVortex, so they have an US slant) and noticed there's a micro switch / activating arm (for wide open throttle?) on it that's not on my cars regular VW TB, guessing it's redundant if you're putting it on a UK spec car?



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  6. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Tbh to me that looks like a bog std MK2 unit, but I guess neuspeed must have gone to the manufacturer's and asked for their logo to be added to the casting? Nice period detail regardless.

    You won't need any kind of throttle switch for yours, the later cab/Rocco/mk2 had one for the cold throttle enrichment plus Digi and 16v had one obvs
     
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  7. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    No guarantee it's true but read something claiming the Neuspeed is essentially the Audi 5000 TB (US version of our 100/200?) but just with their name on... my VW TB has the same 'DVG Made in W.Germany' cast into it.

    Just me being shallow and wanting some genuine old school mods, the MK2 TB is probably way cheaper / more easily found and do the exact same or even a better job.
     
  8. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    well it deffo would go with the theme you are going for with all the other nice stuff for sure so I understand :)
     
  9. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Took out the last of the old brake pipes today.

    Below is what my set up did and will again look like as per 7Zap... I'm keeping the standard rear drums at the moment.

    23 + 24 combine to create pressure regulators, from what I can see they seem to act like a form of one way valve.

    They are in their closed position at rest. If pressure is coming in from the direction of 23 towards 24 they cannot open, it's only if coming from the opposite side that they do. When pressure is released they automatically close again.

    The last image is of mine after a clean up... they did work to a degree when initially removed, but then found out they were quite badly gummed up inside.

    Although I've nothing to compare to I'd say they're both now working as intended, opening / closing easily and the spring action is strong. There's so little to them that there's probably not much that can go wrong other than becoming blocked / clogged up.

    Found those other 'before' and 'after' images on the inter-web, someone has obligingly opened one up and it usefully lets you see how they work.

    These seem to be another one of those things that are proving to be hard to find should I need to replace either, have found a few leads, but yet to get any replies so not hopeful.

    Trying to get my head around the 'flow' (if that's the right word) of the brake fluid when you apply the rear brakes in particular, bearing in mind that if mine are working correctly / I've understood properly that it can only pass in one direction through those regulators.

    Are they maybe progressive, rather than just open or closed?


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    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
  10. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    from what I've read they are 'residual pressure valves' exactly how they work and why MK1s have them I'm not sure, you already have the beam mounted pressure reducer so I dont think that is their intended purpose
     
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  11. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    That helps.. Googling 'residual pressure valves' throws up quite a few current day versions / explainations and as a bit of tech. they don't seem to have evolved much over the years being basically the same.

    What was throwing me was understanding how does fluid return to the MC when they're closed and seems the answer is they aren't usually as a rule, it's just when pressure behind them falls to below a certain PSI.

    10 PSI seems to be the standard setting for run of the mill drum brake ones, hopefully maybe even means if you need them those on sale today should work as replacements for MK1 ones (assuming VW followed the norm. and went for 10 PSI).

    Mine have absolutely nothing stamped on them to say what PSI they operate at or even a VW / makers name. Always possible they've been changed in the past to non-VW items, but their age and looking at inter-web images of others, I'm not convinced they have been.

    If I've read some of the explainations right they apparently hold a little pressure in the lines so as the brakes don't feel spongy / lag a little before engaging.

    Normally for cars whose MC is below the level of the brakes where gravity can drain the lines, which is obviously not the case in the MK1.

    I'm wondering are they only on RHD cars with the brake linkage, an attempt to compensate?

    Are they only on cars with the compensation valve at the rear, maybe tied in with countering the effects that has in someway also?
     
  12. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    yeah on that note, i do seem to recall something being said it helps with pedal feel, there is always some pressure at the back so more instant response.

    looking at etka they're listed for all models regardless of LHD/RHD, bias or not. but then again maybe etka isnt telling us the whole story sometimes the finer details get lost when they converted from microfische/paper to computer system
     
  13. TonyB Paid Member Paid Member

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    Food for thought, just something I'm working on......rather than bugger about :lol:

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  14. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Very nice! Skilled work, I'd love to have gotten into this side of things. You realise you'll now have to keep us all updated!
     
  15. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Always knew the gear shift boot on my car was in tatters, but didn't realise it should also have had a plastic lid affair, makes sense as it likely keeps quite a bit of the road grime out.

    Appears you can get copies of both, the boot is easy enough to come by but the cover doesn't seem to be just as handy (for UK buyers at any rate)... some EU sources but unless you're adding it into an existing order postage could make it more expensive than need be.

    So if you're in a fix for one or just want to save a few quid on that cover have a scrabble about in the cupboard in case there's a tin of Birds Custard lurking at the back (300g in case it matters)... piccies say it all, fits like a glove and because the lip rests on the inner edge of the boot is held in place securely.

    Hard to tell but not sure if the original one snaps on over the outside of the rim of the boot or fits from the inside as I have done?

    Any custard loving owners already with one of the copy boots could maybe give it a try, just in case they aren't exactly the same dimensions as the original VW item here?


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  16. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Looking at the images of the correct cover, has it got 2 x lips... sort of in the profile of a pulley wheel?

    The boot lip maybe snaps into the groove between the two?
     
  17. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    After working on the MK2's PB engine it's not surprising the MK1's DX looks very familiar.

    So one thing that stuck out immediately was the lack of an oil deflector on the older engine... it's quite a late head, manufactured mid June '83, incase it matters.

    7Zap shows one present in the schematic, but you can't always rely on those to be 100% accurate, however for all the price they are new (Febi) went ahead and ordered up one

    In the mean time however I read somewhere that the MK1/DX didn't have them originally. Can't find that reference again, perhaps someone can confirm whether that's the case or not?

    Regardless of all that and now that it's already got, would there be an issue fitting it?



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  18. Cressa Paid Member Paid Member

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    On my early mk2 EV engine it just sits nicely on the camshaft fixings, so can't see why it would be a problem
     
  19. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    There's always the possibility it's the Febi cover, if I'd a genuine VW one it could maybe fit better / differently.

    To the eye it looks identical, but short of taking the rocker off the MK2 to compare (not going to happen) I've to rely on it being correct.

    Something else I noticed scouring the inter-web was there seems to be variations to the MK1 rocker cover, not sure why and if it's a model or date of manufacture thing.

    My cover seems to be the original to the car. You can see that it has an additional piece spot welded on the inside that covers the breather gauze.

    Some images I've found have that absent and the gauze is exposed (filched image below).

    Without the oil shield my rocker cover fits easily on the head, with it in place there's a noticible resistance and they're obviously pressing against each other.

    I'd say it was that cover on the gauze that's doing it.

    Cars with the cover maybe don't have oil shields as it performs that function instead?




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  20. Zender Z20

    Zender Z20 Paid Member Paid Member

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    Working in and around the gear linkage and after cleaning off layers of gunk you can see that the parts pictured are unlikely to be 40 years old!

    Initial thoughts are that it's some form of later short shift mechanism but they're unlike any I've found when Googling... any thoughts?

    Only one of the three pieces shown has VW markings, the others don't have anything at all.

    Of the remaining linkage parts that aren't pictured here, all are as far as I can tell just regular MK1 stuff (and visibly older / probably original to the car).



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