Running a VR6 turbo?

If that turbo at the top of the page is truly a T3, You're going to be struggling at high rpms with that hot side. I would fit that to a 16v.

If you're looking for a turbo with a T4 housing then you wanna look into the .69a/r range. If you're looking for a T3 housing then you wanna look for an .82a/r for the Hp goals you want. You're gonna want something that allows you to run a safe boost level and not be laggy. I wouldn't worry about lag as you can fix that via electronic boost controller.

I do recommend using an EBC. IMO, with a MBC, you can't go far from the wastegate spring pressure without it causing boost spikes. There are some quality MBC's out there but the cost is treading into EBC territory.

As far as a remote setup, it's been done and isn't laggy at all. It all depends on the turbo choice.

FTW, forgot my old username & password so i'm starting fesh . I've built a few turbo VW's incl. my latest project.

In this...


Specs:
Garrett T67 (TO4S) 70 cold side, 82 hotside T3 housing
C2 Stage 4+ software with Pro-MAF & 630cc inj.
Stock engine w/ 9:1 headspacer
MigFab Short Runner Intake & fuel rail
VWMS/Skoda Motorsport 700hp Intercooler

HP goal is 400-450whp but it's built for 700hp. Running about 13psi of boost @ 3 bars of fuel pressure. Still tunning it.

 

Mine is from Germany, its watercooled with the GT35 0.70 compressor.housing and kkk 0.63 turbine housing (found that on the box last night) with 360 degree bearing...so different to your link

 

Ah yeah, found the link to the turbo and the company that makes them, mainly marine applications by the look of it.
Have you bought both the mani and turbo now? If you've got the turbo and not the mani, a 6-2-1 may be a better choice, you can do it using just 6 lengths of pipe and 3 flanges so not much more expensive if you go thickwall 304.

I've got a ton of info on VRT building I did over a year, i'll dig it out and stick it up if you don't mind, got boost plots, mani/turbo placements, fuelling etc

 

I have both manifold and turbo but making a manifold wouldn't be an issue.

Yes please, I would like to see your research

 

Post 41 approved.

Easily solved. Get a couple more posts up and PM me your previous email address I'll merge the accounts and keep your preferred username

 

Will do Chris, thanks

 

It's a kkk hotside at 0.63 A/R

 

Spot on. Sum's everything up. Tim ran alotta pass with the stock block & ebay intercooler. The goal is to run the turbo efficiently as you can. This mean the most power wth less boost. It's easy to turn up the boost controller to make the power. It's entirely up to what the car is built for. If you're rompin' around town then you want a comfortable hp goal and try to achieve. My goal has always been 400-450hp without having to turn up the boost. there are some guys that have been riding for years with 22-24 psi...daily...and thats with just a headspacer & some ARP headstuds. I just watched an mk3 jetta do 408whp @ 15 psi. thats awesome!

When dealing with a VRT. The min. you're going to get is 350hp. that's even without a headspacer & a IC. I would start with a min. of 42lb (440cc) injectors. Anything smaller is not worth it. The main trouble that most worry about is the tranny. Turbo's tend to chew on 3rd gear in the 02a. 3" downpipe & exhaust can yield more power using less boost.

 

So, is this an accurate spec of that turbocharger then:

From the pic, it looks like it uses a divided Garrett T3 flange (& T4 gasket from that camera angle), but looks like a 3K 27/6 or 8 - 4 bolt turbine housing (v similar to T3 4 bolt but hard to tell from that pic), and a GT35 compressor.
Only Garretts GT35 comp wheels are 61.4-82mm for the GTR & 62.5-82.5mm for the GTXR and not 66.6mm inducer! There is a company in NZ that makes GT3540 spec turbo's that uses a 66.6-84mm 0.628 trim compressor wheel mated to a 74.2-61.4mm turbine wheel which matches your specs, however this is german made and you've said usual 70 comp and not 0.628?
The 61.4mm exducer on the turbine would suggest then a Garrett T4 based turbine wheel (74.2-61.4mm) but in a, at a guess, 3K 27 housing using T3 flange and some hybrid GT35 esque compressor wheel in a GT35 housing?

Phew

As for spool, no idea, has anyone ever used a hybrid like or similar to this on a VR, if it's divided T3 flange then ultra quick spool, probably some choking at top end but it's a large T4 turbine wheel so??? I think the Porsche crew are using these on smaller 6 cylinder (944 S2) and the 4 cylinders with tubular aiming for big power.

I'll dig out the info for you regarding VRT building but think some may have been lost on old hard drive that corrupted. I'll be doing more and have me writing pads so will get on the paint programmes.

Did these in 5 minutes or so, so ignore how poor they are, they give you a rough estimate of the manifold pressure for desired HP/Flow targets for a certain displacement at common figures using that compressor.
X axis at a set boost level is flow rate for 3.5krpm-4.5krpm and 7krpm max (or just 4.5 & 7krpm on GTX).

Going to do some better ones and post them up with a how-to read guide for the noobs with the calcs and how they are determined, variables etc - converting calcs from drawing pads to computer is not my speciality though!

 

Cheers guys

Looks like i'll give this turbo a go then but i might make a tubular manifold to utilize the divided hotside

 

You don't have to go all out 316 tubular though, it can be done fairly easily like this but with a divided flange. Couple of 90 or 60 degree bends and a straight should do it and have it backpurge TIG'd, should come to about 100-200 or so.



Some cast log(esque) designs also have some degree of seperation due to the 6 cyl design although it is removed at an open flange. It depends on the design of the cast manifold, not sure on the copy you posted.

 

Thanks mate, my housemate is a metal fabricator so it wouldn't be an issue

 

whats the odds on this turbo/manifold setup fitting into a mk3 vr6 engine bay?

 

90% of these cast manifolds are based off an mk3 VR6. Next in line would be a Rado but they are all the same. It becomes tricky if you have a RHD. It's been done so it's not impossible.

 

I'll give you a visual demo, can you tell what it is yet?

LHD derived cast mani's often situate the turbo like this on a RHD car, although the intake and downpipe could be the other way round. This is also something to think about with a top mount or tubular type of mani (anything other than underslung really!).


The throttle body inlet is also near this like so:


You have to think about radiant heat coming from the exhaust mani/downpipe and the brake servo/master cylinder as well as inlet mani and/or the induction path clearing these parts if the turbo is the other way around.
If you see where the compressor is on the first pic and run a standard inlet mani you will be better off running a twin pass intercooler so pipework is short. If compressor outlet is on the near/passenger side and TB on drivers then you can run a regular intercooler.

The SPA mani is perfect for RHD as it is on the passenger side (induction and compressor outlet) so you can run a regular inlet mani, intercooler and pipework:
SPA mani:




It's all easily done if you can do a bit of fab work but you ideally want no radiant heat near air flowing parts and sharp bends.
I'm not entirely sure of the mani you posted but I assume it'll be like the first pic which means that the turbo inlet is better of small to clear the brake cyl like the T3/T4 pictured with a 2.5", 4" will cause more headaches.

Bit more info for anyone interested: In-lines you want a Walbro 255ltr/hr or Bosch 044 300ltr/hr which'll do about 500/550 and 650hp respectively. Bit of injector info(Rates are at 80% duty cycle, 0.65bsfc - erring on the side of caution)
:
Hi-Impedence Injector type: Rate@ 3bar Rate@4bar - 4cyl WHP(4bar) 6cylWHP(4bar)

Bosch 440cc "Green Giants" 42lb (56whp) 48lbs (64whp) - >256whp >384whp
Siemens 630cc 60lb (80whp) 69lbs (92whp) - >368whp >552whp
ID/Denso 715cc 68lbs (90whp) 78lbs (104whp)- >416whp >624whp
ID/Denso 850cc 81lbs (108whp) 93lbs (124whp)- >496whp >744whp
ID/Bosch 1000cc 95lbs (126whp) 109lbs (145whp)- >580whp >870whp

The EV1's on the 12v you can use a single cone or, in the case of the Green Giants, multi holed single cone, the EV6's and EV12's on the multi valve heads you want to use a twin cone ideally at 15 degrees to stop bore wash (I wouldn't actually bother with anything less than 630cc's on a VRT, you don't need much boost to max out 440's).

If you end up with the compressor on the drivers side of your car and turbo outlet/intercooler piping and therefore struggling with TB/inlet mani placement, I found this in Germany, only 260+taxes, will find link.



I'll see if my mate has the pics of how we did the pipework and mani on his but was years ago so not sure if he has them.

Hope this helps

 

Also, forgot to mention that same injectors are marketed differently and with different connectors, Bosch will do the motronic standard fit so i'd always go for these, bit of variance in them though, i'll dig out the correct part numbers for the different flow rates.

 

i didnt see these posts. extremely informative, thank you very much

 

See I told you the vr6 units were the job

 

hopefully itll be something to boast about one day. huge learning curve to overcome, and a huge money shortage, vr6s are new to me, still to decide on a SEM, and its replacing my 16v which has clicked over to 234k miles... ie used regularly and has to be practical

watch this space

 

I'm still collecting parts for my mk2 build, the expensive parts like a paddle clutch and plate type lsd are still a pipe dream at the moment