4 cyl big block oil pumps - how many versions? FAQ added p2. Updated p4.

Discussion in 'Engines' started by A.N. Other, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Just back from the 'Ring and I'm scouring for info on 4 cyl oil pumps.

    I have been occasionally seeing oil starvation on right handers with quick transition, throwing oil across the sump.

    I have a Schrick baffled sump and windage tray, and am concerned that the Schrick isn't doing its job, or that the pump isn't the right one for the depth of the sump.

    So, my questions are:

    1) How many 4-cyl oil pumps are there? (by part no)
    2) Do the pick up pipe depths differ? (eg ABF pumps)
    3) Are they all interchangeable? (ignoring sump depth)
    4) Is there one pump which is higher pressure than the rest (Passat TDI springs to mind, but hazy recollection).
     
  2. Hotgolf

    Hotgolf Paid Member Paid Member

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    Hiya Chris. I looked into this not so long back, but I don't have part numbers sorry.

    Basically there was only 1 difference( not accounting for differences between 8v and 16v oil pump gear attachment/dizzy and spline driven etc).

    Seems it's not the amount of pressure they pump, but how much oil they flowed.
    It seems the early small blocks used pumps with 24mm tall gears. Later 8v/16v 1800's used 30mm tall gears, and the mk3 8v/16v used 36mm tall gears.
    I'm also assuming the diesels depending on year had a higher flow rate than that of the equivalent engine size/year petrol engines.
    But, don't quote me on any of this, but when I stripped a few down a couple of months back this was the only significant difference.

    Bit vague on the answering but better than nothing ;)


    I do have a question though. Seems that GSF and Euro Car parts have stopped doing 2l 16v oil pumps. VAG do them but are the best part of 145. You know anywhere else that supply the aftermarket pump?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2009
  3. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Doesnt seem like oil pumps are tall/short block specific, since the same pump is used in the 9A and ABF, looks to be its 2.0/1.8 specific?

    2.0:
    027 115 105 B - 2E, ADY - 97.43+VAT
    051 115 105 A - ABF, 9A - 142.67+VAT

    diesel, but dont think they're tall block?
    028 115 105 G - JR, MF, RA, SB, 1V, 1Y, AAZ, 1Z - 120.66+VAT
    068 115 105 AN - JP, ME - 109.66+VAT
    068 115 105 BN - JR, MF, RA, SB for models w/ ABS brakes?! - 112.51+VAT

    1.6/1.8:
    037 115 105 - PG - 123.51+VAT
    027 115 105 E - EZ, GU, EV, PB, AAM, ABS, AEK - 97.43+VAT
    027 115 105 C - KR, PL - 120.66+VAT
     
  4. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    So a lot of different pumps there.

    I'm using an 02?6/8? 115 153 A or at least that's what's on the body.
     
  5. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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  6. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Weird. TDI Caddy (95-2003) or Toledo 1.9D or petrol 1.6 or 1.8 (1991-1999).

    Mine, being fitted with a windage tray I assume, hasn't got the plastic shield above.

    Hardly enough reason for a part no change though [:s]

    I'll measure up an old pump pick up height also.

    Anyone with pumps off cars in and around London/M4/M25/M40, I'd be interested to compare a few.
     
  7. mr hillclimber Club GTI Supporter and Sponsor

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    As you no doubt know Chris, it's not a pressure issue, it's an oil control issue.

    You dont need high pressure, 60-65psi is fine (that all I run at 9k), but you need good oil control (obviously).

    I run the old tsr type baffle's, just two dividing plates accross the sump... useless.

    I've just had some of these made which are going in mine and a couple of customer engines...
    070909153503.jpg


    The idea is to control the oil both accross the sump and reduce it's tendancy to climb out the sides and up through the drain back holes in the windage tray (the windage tray does nothing for oil control... trust me!).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2019
  8. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Agree on the pressure - just making mention in case there's a pump with a deeper pick up, but less pressure potential. There must be some good reasons for all of these different pump variations?

    I used to have no (apparent) issues with an unbaffled steel sump, c/w windage, but I've evidently got oil climbing left (below) out of the Schrick sump, ?partly because of more volume to swish about? [:s]

    [​IMG]

    It's a ~2-bar switch that's spotting the problem, not the OEM ~1 bar switch.

    I can always chuck the smaller steel one back on, but quite like the cooling fins of the Schrick.

    Also the deeper ABF OEM sump suggests there could be variations to pick up heights, though vw_singh confirmed earlier that he fitted a KR steel sump to an ABF without apparent probs.
     
  9. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    Chris - you can still run the small baffle plate with a windage tray - it looks like a little plastic sail. I've got one of those on with my Windage tray. The later (larger) one won't fit.

    I've read on here that the 9A pump is higher capacity. I have no further evidence than that.

    I've also seen 2 different types of pickup pipe - one (KR I think) has a shrouded pickup, while the other has an open round hole, showing all of the gauze. I'll see if I can find any in the garage and take a pic.
     
  10. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Later plastic sail?

    Thanks
     
  11. Mike_H Forum Addict

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    I'm running just a windage tray and small baffle on the end of the pickup. The pressure was rock solid round the 'ring, including the long bends like the Karussell, where I'd have thought oil surge would be a problem. I was careful about keeping the oil level up though.
     
  12. Hotgolf

    Hotgolf Paid Member Paid Member

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    2 litre pumps are definalty higher capacity, with the 36mm gears. I've stripped down a KR, 2e and an ABF lately. The 2 litres have the larger gears.
    In fact, you can use a 2E pump as a 16v if you substitue the driven shaft by pressing it out ;)
     
  13. rubjonny

    rubjonny Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    theres definitly no issues with running a steel sump on an abf, as above the same pump is fitted to the 9a engines, and they all used the bog std MK2 type steel sump :)

    hotgolf what about using a 2e pump on an ABF using that method, since GSF and the like dont do the 2.0 16v ones any more?
     
  14. Hotgolf

    Hotgolf Paid Member Paid Member

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    Thats exactly what I was getting at ;)
    You can press the shaft out of the 2e and either put in an ABF or a KR. You don't press the KR one in all the way though, as you'll be 6mm too short, so you need to press it 6mm from the end. Hope that makes sense.

    Just been looking about, and Gti-bits list a mk3 16v pump for around 50, if they have any is a different thing though.
     
  15. Toyotec

    Toyotec CGTI Committee - Happy helper at large Admin

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    The differences in GSF part numbers may just account for the different driveshafts or drive attachments and pickups, but may not reflect the pump gear dimensions or flow rates. For example the pump in my WOLF R is a Febi unit from a G60. The drive gear was swaped with one from 9A.
    I too will like to know if there is a pump, aftermarket or STD with more capacity then the STD jobs I have search and come up rwith nothing!
     
  16. tshirt2k

    tshirt2k Forum Junkie

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    GSF do still do an ABF oil pump. Managed to get one for mine. Brazilian made though. Unless its a recent thing
     
  17. Hotgolf

    Hotgolf Paid Member Paid Member

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    They stopped a few months back :(
    Seems that now GSF are expanding into the Ford, Vauxhual etc markets that they don't give a toss about the poeple and cars that made them what they are.
    My local GSf has an ex-VW bloke working there who's well sucked off lol
     
  18. tshirt2k

    tshirt2k Forum Junkie

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    Must have got one of the last one then [:s]
     
  19. skint_golfer

    skint_golfer Forum Member

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    I got one about 2 weeks ago from the leamington branch of gsf.... suposidly 2l 16v. got it the same time as I picked up a 50mm inlet gasket....

    ..sump off in the morning I guess [:x]
     
  20. A.N. Other Banned after significant club disruption Dec 5th 2

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    Pics of an ABF pump just spotted elsewhere:
    29.jpg 30.jpg


    IMO that ABF pickup 'rose' looks slightly deeper than others.

    More pics to follow.
     

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