4 cyl big block oil pumps - how many versions? FAQ added p2. Updated p4.

Hey Chris, did ya see this baby > http://cgi.ebay.de/HD-Olpumpe-VW-Motorsport-8V-G60-GTI-keine-Serienpumpe_W0QQitemZ130324429730QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item1e57f0fba2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
It looks cool if nothing else
Edit, dont forget the aeb pump too, ive one in the workshop c/w pickup(althought pickup wouldent suit(A6)) but if you want gear specs shout.

 

Interesting design - can't quite fathom it.

Pics up for others:

 

Ya it is strange, notice the one piece pickup in relation to body, that pickup aint going to break off, cant quite figure the actual pickup design mind you, looks to have an integrated oil control baffle, i wonder if sump pan mods are necessary, I might put a bit on it and have a right look.
Just noticed shaft, non runner for the abf unless a dissy body was put in there..

 

Regards to picjup length. You shorter pickups should be for the 2litre pumps. Extra length on the gears means the 1800cc pickups would be too long and sit too close to the bottom of the sump.
I'll see if I have a couple here as a comparison.

 

Pic of ABF oil pump i bought from GSF

 

I had the same thought when i saw the box! You've eased my mind a bit.

 

Two different rose designs:





If anyone has one of the latter lying around, let me know, as I'd like to measure the depth of pickup

 

pm tris i know he has a bag with a few tired 9a pumps .

 

Chris: the pump I got from gsf was the bottom of your 2 pictures and was the same dimensions as th oe one i was replacing.

tshirt2k: different brand to the one you bought - blue box with red band round the bottom but I cant for the life of me remember what the name was. sorry.

 

i've got a load of old ABF Pumps spare.

Here's the New Oil pump fitted. it did sit deeper in the Schrick sump than a stanard one.

Windage Tray fitted also.

 

Chris... looking back at the pic of your pump on P1, it looks like an aftermarket one - some 'uprated' race item?

I can't help thinking you'd be better off fitting a standard pump (and sump if you need to) with your windage tray, to see if that gets rid of your oil surge problem. My car runs fine on that, with no pressure drop on the Karussell, or anywhere else.

 

Some big blocks have a chain driven pump, i guess they don't count, but though i'd mention it.

 

Thanks Mike, the pump is just one with the bigger gears in it, but nothing else.

I'll not take the pressure switch off right now, but I'm sure it's a 2 bar switch it's got on it (certainly non-OEM), so where OEM oil pressure drops might go unnoticed (0.9 and 1.1 standard - I forget), I've picked it up with the light and then the capillary gauge proves it.

I'll modify a steel sump for now and then get the Schrick alloy one sorted out after.

My only other thought is the oil cooler, which drains downwards (not completely - pipes dip below the take off) causing iffy readings on the dipstick. I don't think that's the issue though.

 

You've got a mechanical capilliary gauge? Interesting - I wonder if they'll react faster than the VDO electronic ones, so the rest of us don't see the change in reading that you're getting.

I just realised that the pic on p1 isn't of your oil pump... wrong end of the oily stick, as usual...

 

Oil Pumps compared FAQ: Mk1 8V, KR and ABF

Ok, three oil pumps compared: Mk1 8v 1.8, KR 1.8 and ABF 2.0.

Key differences summary:

• ABF has bigger gears/has higher oil pumping capacity
• ABF body has larger outlet
• ABF sucks oil from deeper in the sump

Excuse the watermarking - this stuff has a habit of turning up elsewhere without credit.

Left to right (throughout this FAQ), 8v, KR, ABF

Three pumps, superficially similar:




Drives differ: 8v one nearest drives distributor, hence shorter. KR and ABF same length, even though spline cuts differ. ABF instantly indentifiable due to the waisted drive stem (anyone know why it is waisted? Internal clearance?). KR fits ABF and vice versa:



8v/KR pickup:



ABF pickup (moves point of pickup more towards the nearside of the car):



Superficially, the ABF one looks to have a smaller inlet. Appearances are deceptive (design) and it's the same:

8v/KR:



ABF:



ABF pickup is 6mm deeper into the sump than 8v/KR:










But the ABF dipstick is marked differently to 8v/KR: the ABF oil hatched section starts 6mm earlier, meaning the oil is sitting lower in the sump.

Second one down is KR, third and fourth are 9A/ABF:




Time to start pulling them apart - two 10mm bolts (very simple).



Remove bottom half, and cogs just drop out of top:



No seals - it's all just machined from the factory.

Mart was spot on: ABF gears clearly longer (right):



8v/KR:





(they're both 30mm - the measurement with the driveshaft on it is canted over on the bench)

ABF:





Going back a step, it's easy to spot the differences from the outside when you realise what's inside:







Some subtle differences in the upper body, designed to allow more flow:





Note that the ABF one on the right is modified for flow (found on the engine I'd had built).

More detail:



Effectively flowing work, designed to disperse the oil quicker from the pump, or direct it up into the block more effectively.

You can see the logic...

Standard:



Modified:



Though the flow would surely be governed by the greatest restriction, ie the neck below it. Comments?


Lower half of bodies look the same:





Don't be guided by the pickup pipes - these are interchangeable.

Do not take any notice of the part numbers cast into the lower bodies (this is what you see when the sump is off, thinking 'ah, ha - part number'). They appear to be a sub-part no of that lower casting, rather than the part no of the entire unit.


Pumps with OE standard plastic baffle plates on them:

Just to thank infinity for his assistance with this FAQ - without him, it'd never have happened.
(ABF pump on its way back to you, G )


I would like to have looked at a 2.0l 8v pump, 9A pump and also a 1.9 diesel pump, but don't have these to hand.

If anyone has any lying around, that would be great

 

Whilst I was doing this, wear and tear to be on the lookout for:

- dinks in teeth (red), scratches from debris (blue, probably more normal):



(measuring backlash info is in the Haynes manual).

- worn faces on lower side of pump:



... compared to:

 

Comprehensive info there Chris.

Reading that I`d say there is no particular point in using a KR pump in a KR ? wouldn`t you just use the ABF one in a KR engine to benefit from the greater oil flow ?

 

Good infomation there Chris.
You should also compare the pumps from the 6A/9A and perhaps the G60 and 2E. With the exception of the drive arrangement on the 8v varients, these pumps (gears and pump body) should be similar to the ABF unit.

 

Thanks

Ideally compare as many pumps as poss, but given what Hotgolf had posted, it seems we're headed for a near certain answer of use the 36mm gear pumps, which appear to be a 2-litre fitment.

Diesel pumps I'm interested in getting to the bottom of also.

Indeed, straight to ABF. Comes at a 146+VAT penalty though.

The jury's out on the KR vs ABF pickup. For some reason the people that build my engine use an ABF pump with an 8v/KR pickup swapped on. I'll try to find out why.

Generally the thinking appears to be - for track cars at least - to make sure it's OEM. Varying comments from those using Febi and other pumps.