^Aye, fair enough! If only people stuck to buying what they could actually afford... Oh well. If you can stay out of debt, do so. It's not nice.
Since this is about depreciation how about the other end of the scale where splittie vans are now worth 25k? As for safety, i find cadence and keeping a safe distance from the car in front better than the false sense of security abs and air bags give.
I find driving safely AND having safety devices is even better. Anyone that thinks they can outdo an ABS braking system is daft. Anyone that think they are better than a good TCS is talking bo77ox. Anyone that thinks they can respond instantly to any situation is deluded. Anyone that think they can survive a head on crash in an old car is silly. Some may get a false sense of security, but decent drivers simply appreciate the added benefits of good safety devices.
Aphex - LOL! Not at all but trying to "justify" an old car by saying you don't need safety devices is right at the top of the "stupid" tree. Yes you may think you're a driving god, but that doesn't stop a car smashing into and through the central reservation into your path, or a LHD lorry pulling out when you're on it's blind side, or some old dodderer pulling out of a junction without seeing you, etc, etc, etc. The Police instructor that taught me thought ABS was the best safety measure in a car for decades - and taught us to brake very quickly using the ABS to our advantage. Think you can cadence brake AND steer around a hazard at the same time? I don't think so. Yes the most experienced rally drivers MIGHT be able to cope, but even then it's very unlikely. Hell, why not stick a spike to the steering wheel just to really drive "on the edge?!" Disclaimer - "You" and any derivation refers not to Aphex but to anyone that thinks they are some sort of driving hero.
7 years no claims disagrees with y' suth. But anyway back to new cars. My opinion from working in a car factory is let some other sucker beta test it for the first 5 or 10 years of it's life. I feel safer driving a 20 year old golf than some brand new model from a manufacturer who's reputation is safety.
Nordoff - your comments get more stupid in every post! So 7 years no claims (I have had a claim for vandalism and one for someone crashing into me on their insurance - doesn't mean I think there is any more/less chance of a crash) - that means nothing at all - my Dad had 15 years no claims then someone slammed into the side of his Quattro. Had it been a mk2 Golf, he'd now be dead. My mates Mum crashed her Beetle into a tree - any modern car would have crumpled slightly. Hers collapsed and she died. Let some sucker Beta test cars for 5 or 10 years? I know Mr F1 tester, let someone else do all the work for you - someone that knows better. Use those old models and see how you do eh?! Now some justification for old cars is right - older Mercs were better made, older cars are usually lighter, etc, but to bleat on about not "needing" safety aids in a car is just ignorant belligerance. Go on, go and have a head on in your Golf. Then try the same thing in a mk5 Golf and see what happens. In fact try the same in a poverty spec new Polo and see what happens. But of course, you are immune to crashing because of your 7 years no claims?!
life is too short, if i thought worried about hitting a tree all the time I wouldn't ever go out on my mates CBR600 F or plan to buy my own motorbike next summer!!!! lol if your into bikes, trust me a mk2 golf seems plenty safe enough
Damn suth, I was tempted to reply superden style 1 quote per line but sod it. Reread post 146 especially the word opinion. Now try and include it in your posts before insulting people. 7 years doesn't guarentee I'm a great driver but it shows y' don't have to have abs to avoid crashing which was my point. erm, that mr f1 tester bit.... wtf??? drive straight into another car, erm, no thanks. Same goes for driving striaght into a tree, it's somewhere next to listen to a yoko ono album in me list of priorities. If your dad wasn't responsible for his accident (ie pulled out on the guy or what ever) he'd still have his no claims. Not really bleating on about safety aids just saying people get too reliant on em and believe anything that hasn't got em is going to have to negotiate " a car smashing into and through the central reservation into your path, or a LHD lorry pulling out when you're on it's blind side" or anything else from the terminator movies. eg, you believe you can't cadence and steer at the same time because you're used to abs. The whole point of cadence is so you can still steer while braking. It's helped me out several times over the years on and off track which is kind of amazing considering I'm not an "experienced rally driver" But back to what I was on about with new cars, you seem to have misunderstood me. Imagine a car is approved by VOSA given that component X is built to standard Y. Now add production demands, pressure to increase production, lazy workers and a lack of training. 2 years down the line standard Y is now something that management deny existed. The average Joe public knows nothing of this and buy's quite happily. Maybe they're lucky and get one I worked on, or maybe they hit a pothole on an A road one day and a certain weld breaks on a stress fracture, the axle digs into the tarmac and they go flying head first into a 20 year old car with no ABS. Remember that word opinion I mentioned at the start of this post. I've seen that drop in quality between what is allowed and what actually gets put on the road. It's what me opinions based on, I'm not discussing it online anymore these days but anyone in stoke is welcome to come talk to me face to face about it and I'll guarentee you'll walk away understanding.
so all this safety talk relates to new cars depreciating in what way? sutherland wants to drive a boring vauxhall and a tin box on wheels so he feels safe - great. nothing to do with new cars depreciating at all..... some would argue that the finance options and availability has made buying new cars a lot easier than it used to be, so used cars are then worth very little - meaning people that arn't strapping themselves up with massive finance can buy models a few years old at massive savings and laugh all the way to the bank!!!
True, it was proved to me, on a skid course that cadence braking is more effective than ABS (standard ABS not EBA, EBD etc) I was taught how to cadence brake around a cone (in a non ABS car) & was then told to try the same avoidance manouver (without cadence braking) in an ABS equipped Escort, which just plowed straight on & flattened the cone. Something to do with the lateral grip being defeated by simultaneous braking & steering forces generated by the ABS as opposed to the brake/steer/brake/steer in cadence braking. I can't really explain it but I know that it happened.
Yes but the Escort would have had USELESS ABS brakes so that's hardly a comparison. Things have moved on a long way since the Escort. Okay, you are all driving Gods (sorry but I learned to drive well before ABS was the norm and learned cadence braking in IAM and Cop training so am perfectly capable of it -savedf my bacon twice in my mk2 Golf) so that's fine - you'll never crash then. Mark3 - A boring Vauxhall that's quicker, safer, comfier and grippier and with a FAR superior chassis to your Golf, not forgetting that i had one for 3 years? Well I like boring then. A tin box (stolen from TSC AGAIN) too? Oh well - we'll suffer the massive offroad ability, and boat towing capabilities and put up with massive reliability of any Jap car then. Muppet.
to be honest, I don't agree with certain people's constant digs in their posts (my wife is a great cook, did i mention that etc etc) just see it as a form of bullying - not my bag. My point was that we had gone off topic and that I don't come on club gti, which is a GTI enthusiast web site after all to hear you bleat on about the safety of your new vauxhall ashtray...... in a forum about new car depreciation. Now you have turned it into yet another thread about your great vauxhall, to quote: For the last time, Im on CLUB GTI because I am a chav (your words) that loves Golf GTI and don't want to hear about your Astra any more - go here to bang on about it from now on please - save me from having to read it www.vauxhall_astra_appreciation_website_thebestcarsintheworld.com
Well don't call it boring then - just ignore it. Anyway, we bought it NEW and it's now worth about a fiver. So we've extended the warranty and will keep it longer to soften the blow. I haven't actually seen a single other post from someone who has bought new and is willing to discuss it. So I'm simply trying to balance what seems to be a very one sided "debate." The "point" of this thread seems to be to take potshots at "stupid" people who buy new when they could have been "much cleverer" and bought a 15++ year old Golf. I disagree. And you'll find many on here without GTIs who have owned them in the past or just like them - I've had two GTis and an R32 as well as a hideous Passat so I'm afraid I'm rather better "qualified" than you the the subject of performance VWs.
