AIR FILTER

Discussion in 'Engines' started by Prash, Nov 15, 2004.

  1. Prash New Member

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    Hi Guy's

    I want to install a perfomance filter but I don't know what to go for. I have a Golf Mrk3 GTI 16V 2L. I heard pipercross is very good and produce wicked sound.

    Can anyone Help

    Thanks
     
  2. S1MMA Forum Member

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    why do u want a performance air filter? Is it just for the sound?
     
  3. Prash New Member

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    Yes mate and also increase a little BHP. I know its not Much, but mainly for the sound.
     
  4. kevinv Forum Member

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    Put in a performance panel filter...you will find it will cause you far less problems.
     
  5. Prash New Member

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    Why mate what problems occour
     
  6. P1PRX Forum Member

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    Alot of people on hear do not rate performance airfilters on here, but never the less...

    If you want a nice sound, better throttle increase and a possible gain in peak power, performance airfilters are always the way.

    VFC053 is the part number for the Pipercross Viper induction kit, this is a sealed unit offering cold feed from a 75mm cold air feed pipe,

    PK053 is a normal induction kit, similar to the K&N, but not a rubber neck filter, it has a 150mm aluminum spinning with a built in rampipe,....yes these do take in hot air, but no real loss in power otherwise Pipercross K&N green ect would not still produce them.

    Then the repalcemnt filter,PP1219 Offers 30% less restriction, that means nothing to overall power but gives a smother throttle responce, and has a dust capacity twice that of K&N and Paper, meaning it flows more air for longer.
     
  7. S1MMA Forum Member

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    well, I dont know what a better throttle increase is, as for a gain in peak power - the only way you would gain power over a standard new VW filter is if the current airbox was restrictive or if you had some sort of cold air feed (which the standard box has anyway). As the airbox on the MK3 GTI 16v/8v is the same as the MK3 VR6, I dont think that it would be restrictive in the least or the VR6 box would have been different from the factory. Only thing you will gain is the sound, and a decrease in performance if you replace the airbox with an induction kit which isnt boxed off or has no cold air feed. So if thats what you want - go for it!

    Do a search on the pros and cons of these air filters, theres plenty of info on here. Problems with cold starting your car and the oil getting on parts that it shouldnt are the main concerns (along with power losses due to sucking in warm air from the engine).
     
  8. P1PRX Forum Member

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    How do performance filter companys stay in bussiness?

    If all there products are not effective? what about all the testing that filter manufactures do, the rolling road work, restriction tests, intake tempreture tests?
     
  9. rocco2litre

    rocco2litre Forum Junkie

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    i had one on my 2ltr 16v engine....caused problems
    with the air sensor...would not tick over properly
    and drew in loads of hot air.
    still did 160 bhp at stealth with std/home made air box.
     
  10. pipercross New Member

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    OK a couple of things direct from Pipercross's technical department.

    O.E air boxes are restictive, this is how manufactures reduce the intake noise to a aceptable level. Some new trick O.E air box sytems like the Pug 206 180 gti and BMW M3 CSL use switchable dual intake system so on idle and low engine loads the engine breaths through a small bore air feed, then when the load increases on the engine a second large bore airfeed opens, allowing the engine to produce more power but also more noise.

    Now a MK3 golf does not have such a system but still breathes through a small air feed to reduce noise. Now I know what you are going to say" If A VR6 can produce 170BHP through this air box then surely my 2.0 8v is not being restricted by it" When desiging intake systems there are many more thing to be considered than just restriction. With intakes is a matter of the quality of air rather than just the quantity.

    Our induction kit does breath in hot air from the engine bay but is uses a full radius ram pipe to smooth the air before entering the engine. this alows the air to become laminair in flow, meaning it will travel faster with less pumping force required by the engine. this can give a increase at top end just because of the reduction in pumping losses on the engine. The heat does limit this increase this is why the Viper works so well, because you reduce these loses on the engine but maintain a large bore cold air intake.

    I hope this helps.
     
  11. The Other Simon Forum Member

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    1. Advertising. "Can produce up to 20bhp" means that we found a knackered engine, with a dirty air filter, and replaced it with a clean one of ours and the power went up by 20.

    2. 20 years ago, you could achieve easy gains by messing with the air filter. However since the mid eighties tha mnaufacturers are already using most of the tricks - so you ain't going to see no power increase.

    3. People are stubborn. If they have paid 50 for an air filter they of course they are going to say it feels better - it be admission of wasting their money to say it did nothing. Customer testimonials are worth nothing - far to easy to obtain.

    4. Rolling Roads are far to easy to tweak to get whatever result you want. Engine dynos are much more accurate.

    Simon.
     
  12. S1MMA Forum Member

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    well said by the other simon, seconded here.

    Really, thats a big statement right there my friend. Firstly, some airboxes are restrictive, that is - the engines actually require more air than the airbox can supply. BUT not ALL airboxes are restrictive, and in this case we are discussing the airbox of a mk3 golf 2l 16v. I do not think that this engine actually requires a larger amount of air than the std airbox can supply.

    As for quality of air, I mentioned above that cold air feeds/boxing off the engine compartment/in some cases ram air boxes etc.... can help to give more power/give better flow etc.... thats fair enough. Some tuned turbocharged/supercharged cars really are limited by their airboxes and should upgrade.

    But in this case, the truth is any non standard airbox can maybe increase power by a very small amount, whilst giving a different sound which is what the customer wants. Dont be misguided by thinking you are getting any more than a few bhp more power, this is a fair statement. And then also there are the aforementioned problems with some of these systems.

    Fair statement?
     
  13. pipercross New Member

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    You are right. Manufactures have lernt lots of tricks but not to produce power their main target is to reduce noice and in increase MPG.

    As for rolling raods and dynos. Pipercross always use independant rolling roads such as superchips and Northampton motorsport. we take our results from the average of three runs and are alwasy corrected for air temp, pressure and humidity. If we tweeked our rolling road results why would we bother rolling roading the cars, we would just make up a graph in excel!
     
  14. P1PRX Forum Member

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    I cannott belive what The other simon has said!!?

    Basicly you belive Performance filter companys MAKE UP and tweek power runs, Intentionally find knackered engines ect ect, I belive Pipercross have been manufacturing performance filters for over 27 years, supply race & rally teams all over the world, I cannott see them fixing power graphs so bob in his mk2 golf is happy!

    Do you have the same concernes with performance exhausts, plug leads? spark plugs? ect?
     
  15. pipercross New Member

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    [/quote]

    Really, thats a big statement right there my friend. Firstly, some airboxes are restrictive, that is - the engines actually require more air than the airbox can supply. BUT not ALL airboxes are restrictive, and in this case we are discussing the airbox of a mk3 golf 2l 16v. I do not think that this engine actually requires a larger amount of air than the std airbox can supply.


    [/QUOTE]

    Firstly I think a lot of people are miss-guided in what happends in a O.E air box. What you are saying is the total ammount of air the airbox allows to enter the engine governs the total amount of power. This is not the case. It is the ammont of effort the engine uses to suck that amount of air up, keeps the lid on power.
     
  16. S1MMA Forum Member

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    Ok, so if the amount of effort required to suck the air up is reduced, then there will be gains in power. Ok - thats fine. This is still going to be quite low on a Mk3 GTI 16V, and you 'may' get cold start problems and oil on various bits etc... etc...

    See, on a skyline R33 GTR or a 300ZX or some other big engined turbo car - the above effect of sucking the air in more effeciently may actually have a noticible difference, but on the Mk3 GTI I doubt that you would even notice it. Is this not true?
     
  17. badger5

    badger5 Club GTI Sponsor and Supporter Trader

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    There's always the other arguement (fact) that some heavily coated foam filters, which rely on the coating to catch dust, allow this coating to be drawn out and across other sensors.. (MAF's for example on later cars)

    Consider a cotton gauze Panel filter and airpipe feed to it in larger diameter fed from cold air feed. Enclosed induction kits work well.
    regards
    bill
     
  18. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    I put in a k&n panel filter and chopped out sections of the box that are now fed air. No more restriction and no hot air! [:D].
     
  19. pipercross New Member

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    Yes you are right, oiled filters do blow airflow meters, thats why Pipercross filters for cars with MAF sensors do not use oil. Instead we use a finer internal layer of foam that makes the oil redundent. The only reson we do not use this foam on our whole range is expense, this very fine foam is very expensive.

    By the way cotton gause uses oil on there pannels so could blow meters!

    when modifying O.E air boxes please ensure that you make a smooth entry into the MAF. If you do not do this it will create turbulence in the entry to the MAF causing it to miss read and confuse the ECU.




    Edited by: pipercross
     
  20. vw_singh Events Team Paid Member

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    Good job my car doesn't use a MAF. It's k-jetronic!
    Edited by: vw_singh
     

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