I've got a Mk3 16v engine in my Mk1. It's got a K&N induction kit on because the airbox from the Mk3 won't fit in the Mk1 bay. It's okay, but I'd prefer the airbox with a panel filter as it would not draw in hot air.
I would say it depends where the cone filter is situated as to whether it will draw in hot air. On my mk3 vr it sits right in the wing, and i haven't had any problems with it. Once the car is in foward motion, the filter will draw in cold air, very much in the same way as a radiator is cooled by the in rush of cold air. The main benefit of these intake systems is to improve throttle response.
More MAF scare mongering... DOH! More 20VT motors have expired from PiperX & Viper kits being fitted than anything else I've seen.. Foam, filters need coatings to stop dust.. give it a year and dust will have found its way in.. You have a dry foam filter? Yikes.. Had first hand experience of dry foam filters and it cost me an engine rebuild. Foams disintegrate over time from what I've seen. Reality is MAF sensors fail regularly on bog stock cars, so someone like you saying they could cause failures is tosh! Green filters for example dont.. Greens Dynatwist also features radius bell mouth in the filters base.. They do run light oil coating, but have proven to be MAF friendly.. as friendly as anything can be to an unreliable sensor. Bill
MAF sensors seem to always go wrong on mk4's anyway, so could be because of cone filters, but might be just prone to failure anyway.
my golf mk2 16v got 148 bhp on the rollers the only engine mod i have is a pipercross induction kit it almost sounds as good as a vr6 too.
The oil in the foam does increase the foams efficancy by grabbing onto the dust particles as they pass by, also a oil coated filter has increased efficance with out any increase in restriction. Pipercross normally use only a two layer foam for road use this with a retention oil give better protection than paper filters (o.e) On 20 V t engines we use the same two layers followed by a third even finer layer. This dose increase the retriction slightly, but this is worth it for the extra protection. This type of three layer foam was developed in conjunction with the Ford focus world rally Team (M Sport) who have a 10,000 turbo sitting just behind our filter. Now the conditions on some rallies do require some oil to be placed on the outer layer of the filter but the conditions are alot hasher than would be found in a road car. What I am trying to say that if green use oil, this oil through migration will end up on the elements in side the MAF, Which could cause MAF failer (on a weak MAF)Also since Pipercross have switched to a three layer dry foam we have not had a single MAF Failer. Sorry but these are the facts, we have done many hours of reserch on this problem as we could not afford the posiblity of replacing a MAF every time we sold a filter for a 20v T. It angers me that I have spent many hours of my time reserching these problems and sorting them and a few comments on a forum like this can ruin a products reputation
Green's oil is very minimal and does'nt come out of the filter.. fact also. MAF's fail.. on std cars.. What do you have to explain that? you blame other induction kits and PiperX do have products which get fitted to MAF equipped cars.. and when overcoated they do fail. (would fail also if they were ITG and oiled heavily, or K&N or Green etc) You should read all the other forums.. PiperX do not have a good name on MAF equipped cars.. fact also. you have some work to do to convince people otherwise (and I'm not talking me personally) In my own experience foam fiters degrade with age much faster than cotton gauze ones.. They are disposable after 12 months usage in my opinion. (not all bad so long as they're cheap). More bits of foam fall out on old foam filters thans worth bothering with or risking. Not good when the filter becomes the debris.(albeit's only foam) M-Sport may well have a mucho money WRC installation.. and like foams.. but Peugeot/Citroen choose to use Green I believe.. so they would'nt be any less fussy on thir WRC cars. Although comparing WRC cars and road cars with road service intervals is pretty irrelevant. sounds good tho eh What do you have to say about stainless steel gauze filters then.. People think they're great as they are dry.. do they stop dust? do they heck as like. I will add my own experience is of ITG 3 layer foam filters, which when un-oiled allowed dust straight thru in not so long a time. Result was engine rebuild, relapping valves and new rings.. Oiled they stopped dust whilst they were kept oiled.. but the coating poured out of them into the inlet tract.. Car was a 16v on t'bodies, so no MAF to worry about. It would have been a very oily one if it had of run MAF sensor tho.. dont get angry.. get a product out which convinces people its goign to a)act like a filter, b)give actual performance gains of paper filters, c)not require coatings or keep applied coatings on the filter and away from MAF's. Maybe your distributors need educating and are selling the wrong models to the wrong cars & customers.. (MAF ones) Good luck
I have been reading this with more than a little interest. To satisfy my own curiosity about aftermarket air filters, where does the BMC carb cannister thing fit in?
i reckon looking for a paper element from a production car that matches or exceedes the airflow requirements is the safest move, going to try a fiat 20vt[220bhp stock] airbox on my other valver [without k-jet]
Pleated cotton gauze filter sat inside a carbon housing.. Inverted filter (back to front..inside out cone) Edited by: badger-bill
as it happens I do.. from choice. I dont do anything foam filter..from previous experience. Not plugging Green as I do em.. as K&N, Jetex, BMC etc all have pleated cotton gauze also. Varying degrees of oil application on em.. at the end of the day none of them will give you loadsa power over stock unless you start to go full induction kit (as opposed panel filter replacements) and a lot of the full kit gains are from larger inlate pipework as much as anything. Aside from the 'bling' value.. On an Ibiza-R some time ago, I did a back to back test with the owner(friend) who doubted anything like a basic panel filter would alone give any gains. Datalogged airflow readings on his car with new OE paper filter and new Green panel (could have been K&N or equivalent) and there were gains across the board in mass airflow g/s, which equated to 3bhp on the ecu's derived block #120 torque output. Could you feel 3bhp in 180bhp? Nope.. Bit more peppy.. bit more noise.. Change the intake pipe to the OE airbox and there were more gains again.
Consider OE airbox on Leon 1.6 is the same size as Leon Cupra R.. same panel filter.. Packaging is the manufactures main aim as is std part use.
Green oil maybe minimum but in enough to colour the filter green! I am not sure on all the reasons that MAF's blow, I know the on early VW MAF engines the Crank vent went in before the MAF sensor, The oil vapour from this would seep through the paper element and coat the MAF. Now VAG have moved the vent behind the MAF to reduce this problem. Pipercross have a bad name for MAF equipt cars? We have a very good name on subarus for which we supply SYMMS racing (top jap tuner) We have always had a good relationship with the Ford focus owners club. May be you could give me some links so I can have a look. Filters degrade? Yestoday I had a customer contact me regarding recovering the foam on his Metro 6R4 for which Pipercross were fitted from standard. These filters were 19 years old and for club rallying and rally cross. When I got these filters back all they needed was a clean. No degradation of the foam was in evedence. Please be reminded that Pipercross have a liftime waranty, if filters fell apart with in 12 months Pipercross would be out of business. Stainless steel, Great sound, Great look, Great performance, Not very good filter. ITG filter specification is very different to our's.we use a very fine (100 pores per inch) inner layer. Please be aware that foam is just not foam. Foam technology is very advanced, ITG foam may be different in material, cell shape, structure and specification. We have developed our Foam with leading foam manufactures for over 27 years, slowly bettering the performance of foam filter products. We now have a product that 1) is safe to use with MAF and presents no extra risk to the MAF that the O.E setup . 2) Works as a filter 99.6% effciant down to 3 microns particle size when used dry. ( O.E 96.5% down to 3 microns) It dose not require any coating. I think alot of people on Forums like this one need educating, advssing and reasuring. All it takes is a few bad un educated posts to destroy many hours of hard work by so many people. Conclusion: All Pipercross filters for cars equipt with MAF sensors use this dry foam as standard. Pipercross air filters are not just a gimic like some of the new far Eastern companies selling cheap filters. Pipercross filter are expensive mainly because of the R&D that goes into the creation of these products.
Bill There are two of us, We both have mk1 golfs as projects, Just want to point out the guys on here have gave me loads of invaluble help with my 16v converstion and I am on here as a VW enthusiast, I have not and will not try and advertize Pipercross filters...BUT after reading every post about airfilters not working loseing power ect |I had to get involved, I am the grumpy one who loses his temper, Adam ont he other hand is the Technical guy...cool calm....and he knows what he is on about!
Colour.. does'nt take much to dye white green does it. LOL What PiprX product do you reccommend for 1.8T engined VAG cars then? I would be interested to have some information from you.. (my email is bill@badger5.co.uk) agreed ITG is'nt PiperX - so tell me more about PiperX foams. cost of R&D.. well we're all under pressure from the far east copies. More looks than function, and more education on the real differences is req'd to differentiate their products from good products. customers vote with their wallets a lot of the time when they dont know the differences. Browse some forums like ukmkivs's, seatcupra.net, seatenthusiasts, briskoda etc... Interesting having this debate for you.. as I am a reseller of Green and you are PiperX themselves.. (sales or D&D?) I have long beeing banging on on the 1.8T forums I partake in, that MAF failures on 1.8T's are rarely induction kit related, unless that induction kit was dripping with coating. Dealers have been the biggest scaremonger on newer cars as they faced warranty costs for failed MAF's and their perfect excuse "get out of jail card" was to blame the hapless induction kit. (no matter whose it was) - Reality being, and I think people are finally getting the gist, is MAF's simply fail all to often on totally original cars... paper filters .. No excuses, just weak poor component. As for oil/breather system contamination, you're 100% right.. although they have relocated breather post MAF, they have also plumbed DV recirculation pipe to blow oil residue back onto MAF so they will still get coated with engine oil and degrade/expire. DOH!.. good old VAG. you sound like you do offer a non-coated product now, which is good.. so people will need to know what this is etc... as too many peeps have chosen coated PiperX on MAF equipped 1.8T cars with the problems which can ensue. Bad name is gained all to quick.. Joys of the net. Bill
