Another few notches in the dash...!

Tubthumped - They sound rather handy.

 

They do their job
Click here to watch a lap of Donny... -- in car with me, following GVK. (take note of the following. BMW, Porsche, MG ZT180)
Edited by: Tubthumped

 

Nice laps!
Were the BMW couple and 911 trying or was that a genuine pasting?!
Nice sunset!

 

The 911 was definatley trying.. can't tell with the BMW as it was caught in corners and passed in corners...

 

I think Bruntingthorpe would be a great idea

 

I'd be game for a bit of track action.
Maybe when my tyres are near the end of their useful life!

 

fthaimike, can you have a word with Steve Kirk about organising something at Bruntingthorpe? It would be great feature material for the magazine,surely?

Old vs new etc

 

i havent had an r32 stuck in my filter socks yet [:^(] havent had one that wants to have a go...

would be good to see this track action

 

I'm under no illusion that the old mk2 will stand a chance after 100mph, the R32 has a claimed top speed of 153mph FFS Local haulier has one and reckons he's seen 160 indicated down the A1 Interesting to compare 30-100 "real world" acceleration, I mean who practices 0-60 every day??

Riley, the R32 will only need 4th gear to decimate your mk1 [:^(]
Edited by: G_V_K

 

Reckon "real World" acceleration of R32 is actually better than 0-60 times suggest.
Big torque so no gaps in power delivery.
My mk3 GTi 16V was pretty poor under 4k revs but genuinely quick above that.

 

Think that's a bit innacurate Gary, I think you're talking about an old 16v with knackered dampers/bushes etc. The only suspension "mod" I have is the rear poly bushes, everything else is new/rebuilt but all standard stuff. It handles very well indeed. The difference between it now and when I bought it with poor tyres/dampers/bushes etc. is truly unbelieveable, really is a different car even tho I haven't really uprated anything.

I think GTI vs. R32 is all a matter of taste, they're very different beasts. The good points about the R32 i.e. refinement etc are completely opposite to what I enjoy about my Mk2 i.e. noisey raw driving experience with lots of feedback.

I would be VERY interested to see a comparison on track of various Golfs, but the condition of the suspension etc. makes such a difference, I'd like to see freshly rebuilt (to as new condition) 16v vs. new GTI's, R32 etc. with the same driver at the wheel. Might be closer than some people think

Joe

 

I can vouch for renewed standard suspension on my mk1. The difference between knackered and tired out standard gear and brand new standard gear is startling.

I think a lot of people make that mistake with a mk1, by sticking on lots of uprated stuff and lowering springs without knowing what the car is actually supposed to be like in the first place.

Cheers,

Drew.

 

Sorry Joe, I should've said *my* 16v when it was on standard suspension

 

Yeah, well mine when I got it was absolute rubbish as well, tyres were the main cause, then worn top mounts and bushes next I think, then tired dampers last.

I just think for a comparison between a Mk2 and modern cars you would have to have all new suspension on the Mk2 to make it fair.

Joe

 

Following on from this threads original subject, I had a bit of fun this afternoon with an 04 reg Elise, he followed me out of a roundabout on the A17 up to 'silly speed' and was most probably suprised to see the speed an old mk2 can carry through a series of (desterted) roundabouts

On the open road there wasn't much to chose between the two in straight line performance I slowed down to 'sensible' speed on one open stretch as I know it's a target for vascar armed patrol cars and as I know where they sit I had my eyes peeled for our friends in the jam sandwich

They weren't sitting in the usual place today so the fun recommenced as the guy in the Elise pulled alongside and gave me a 'see ya mate' wave.

<shock> as I dropped into 4th and sat on the Elise's rear diffuser until the next roundabout

Then the fun was over as we encountered traffic, I turned off left to one of my favourite B roads hoping he would 'take the bait' but pulled alongside in the slip road gave each other a thumbs up and went our seperate ways
Edited by: G_V_K

 

This is an interesting topic...

Why is there this new vs old comparison? Some points Id like to raise:

1) The whole 'my car was 3k and can beat 30k machines' argument. Right. Well if you drive a highly modded MK2 it cost the equivelant of a modern GTI back in 1986 - if someone back then had done the same to a 1970s Chevette, would you side with him if he had no respect for a MK2? Its a flawed argument to my mind.

2) The age rivalry. I am guessing in the average Porsche ownership club you don't get owners with 1982 911 C2s and 2004 911 C4 arguing in the same way. Surely every car has its place for various purposes. We are all enthusiasts so why can't people appreciate all of the cars regardless of price? If someone wants to pay 350/mo for a modern car thats bloody fast and ahs all the toys, thats their choice, as it is the next guys choice to spend 3k on his car and spend his money on something else. Its about prefferences and priorities.

3) An honest question for the track day boys who have modded MK2s - I am curious as to why you don't go for Caterham 7s or Lotus Elises? As I would imagine thats closer to the single seater, driver focused experience right? Is it the challenge of doing it with a semi normal hatch, or does the Golf offer something more?

My assumption is its because the car serves a dual purpose - day to day car as well as weekend fun at a decent price. Its a compromise. In which case an R32 with all the toys and serious pace would be a modern day, factory equivelent surely?

4) Even if a MK2 did post a lap time several seconds quicker for only 3k people seem to forget that your average V6 MK4 is carying around 1400KGs of leather, climate control, 4WD (which I am positive as stopped me from killing myself in my 9 months of V6 ownership) and crash protection. Its a different world, I don't think its fair to compare in that way.

5) Finally the track day concept would be interesting and Id love to have a go. But the problem is the driver. I know in the hands of someone like GVK my car would fare far better than with me behind the wheel. It would have no tyres or brakes left, but you know. So is it a fair comparison at all...it would be nice for the day just to be all in fun but reading this thread its pretty unlikely isn't it.

 

MMMMMMMMmmmmmmm

 

Track performance is on a par with 'mild' Elises in our Golfs we have a solid roof and loadspace (I'm not saying 4 seats as mine has'nt had those for a year or more.)



Edited by: G_V_K

 

Mike

5) The second any of us track day lot get close to a track i assure you it is all in fun. Nobody ever goes out to 'prove any point' -- we all understand the massive dangers this carries!

4)Yes the v6 4mo is carrying all that extra weight... but it is alos carrying all that extra power and grip. So comparing light less powerful to heavy more powerful is, to my mind, a fair point to bring up. Just look at the way the VW cup is run.

3) I don't have a carterham or similar as i still need a car every day. Yes my car is getting very track oriantated, but it is still a practical day to day car. And yes.. it is nice having the challange, and rising to it in a semi- normal hot hatch. Also, i have overtaken a couple of westfields....

2) I put my V5 on the line when i say that i'm CERTAIN Porka owners still have the same disagreements over which breed of 911 was best... it's what comes of having people passionate about a car brand, but also passionate about a certain era, year, engine spec or even colour of that brand.

1) No i would not side with them.. but i wouldn't be stupid enough to dismiss his opinion as wrong or invalid. I wouldn't say it is a flawed argument, maybe your point is more flawed? You have started to cross brands of car. It would be more on topic to say if the Chevette owner sl*gged off a Corsa owner...
Edited by: Tubthumped

 

Trust me, the 'ringers mailing list has had quite a few discussions on which 911 new or old is superior