No point in performance mods for old cars

Controversial post warning. Sit down and take a junior aspirin if necessary! You don't have to agree, just debate it!

I was reading the latest issue of VW Driver this morning and it never ceases to amaze me how much power you can get out of the latest generation of VW turbo charged engines. When you can get 200bhp out of a 1.8T just by mucking about with the onboard chips it calls into question why anybody would want to spend loads of money on a mk1,mk2,mk3 for performance reasons.

The nail in the coffin is the realisation that even the God-like G60 limited mk2 is not as quick as an Mk4 R32 in standard trim...

Your average mk4 owner has so much more potential in terms of outright performance, and you still get all the creature comforts, modern suspension, aerodynamics and high speed ability (with economy on the TDIs). With the advent of the mk5 we should get chuckability back into the equation too.

Getting a mk4 to 250bhp (and say 200bhp/tonne) is not that difficult or expensive in real terms. Getting a mk1,mk2,mk3 to the same performance bracket is much harder, more expensive and you have to upgrade so much more of the chassis to cope.

Time for us 'classics' boys to step in and raise the flag I think, and preserve the best of the oldies in standard trim. We can't compete!

Cheers,

Drew.
Edited by: drew

 

point well made, but VW very nicely made it fairly easy to retro fit all that 20v goodness into mk1s and mk2s

 

yeah, its cheaper to get more bhp from a mkIV 1.8t than a mkII 16v....but it cost a lot more money to buy the bloody car in the first place!

 

wonder if they considedered the fact some people would actually prefer 'wasting' money on a mk1 to enhance the driving experience and have a car they actually enjoy driving, rather than spending money making a mk4 fast.

want a fast car, then buy an evo or something...

 

To a large extent I agree with Drew.

Maybe its just something you have to get out of your system?

I know Ive got the "classic hot hatch" thing well out of mine now.

Its time for something bigger, that was meant to be a "performance" car in the first place!

With regard to actually modding old cars Im a bit of a sceptic. Is there REALLY any point in putting 300 worth of exhaust and 100 worth of air filter on your 8v gti?
Its not going to turn it into anything fast. Its just going to make everyone who see's your car think.... "oh... another boy racer with some loud exhaust"

Sticking a Shrick on a VR is a slightly different things, thats something done in the interest of actually making the car better/different to drive, not just making it louder!

 

no point having a stupidly quick car.

mine does 130mph and is quicker than 80% of the cars on the road......however how long will you hold a licence for?

yes i could go out and buy a mk4 but do i want to look like everyone else. no

when i drive my car it turns heads....thats what its all about. having a car you love that lots of other people do too. i have never once been driving down the road in my mums mk4 20vt and had anyone go 'wow love that car'

yes new cars are nice to sit in and feel safe and secure but there not classics and they never will be.

 

Im sure IanB is quite happy...you dont NEED to spend masses of cash on an older car to make it fast...

A 200BHP normally aspirated mk2 16v that will run rings round most of latest models...a perfect compromise of power/handling for the road & track

I dont think VW will ever re-create the chuckability of the mk1 & mk2, so for me, the extra power you can squeeze out of the newer cars is a waste. Fast in a straight line..yes..but not as FUN overall!

Its true that the advent of the forced induction VW petrol (& diesel) motors has opened up a whole new area of engine tuning...& some of the newer mk4s can be made very quick, but Ians motor proves the point that theres life in the old mk2 yet!

As has been said previously, the new engines can be retro fitted into all the previous mks' so all tastes are catered for..

 

with the performance suspension i have on my car now it makes a mk4 look like a double decker bus in sand.

 

You lot need to open you eyes to new cars!!!

Ok Mk4's are barges.... we all know that....

What about Clio 182's? They are awesome and would leave any mk1/mk2 for dead! (Dont use the example of a tuned mk1/mk2, im talking stock for stock, You could tune a 182 still....)

RX8's.... one of the best drivers cars to come out in a long time....

God im almost starting to sound like sutherland and his "dont stick up for old cars just because you have one"....

 

"yeah, its cheaper to get more bhp from a mkIV 1.8t than a mkII 16v....but it cost a lot more money to buy the bloody car in the first place!"



Its about about taste. Anyone can buy an R32. But park a nice 16v mk2 next to an R32 and the mk2 will still get as many looks. A brand new car next to a car that could be as many as 15yrs old - and still being admired.

Thats what its about.
Edited by: m1xmag

 

What about Clio 182's? They are awesome and would leave any mk1/mk2 for dead!

NO NO NO, Iv raced a few Clio 172's in a straight line and either got infornt of them or equaled them.

They always stop and ask what Iv got under the bonnet.... I love saying STANDARD GTI.

Tru.... New cars are alot more comfortable and all that..... but NOTHING drives like a MK1 and MK2 GOLF.

 

But cost's a damn sight less. and is more 'unique'

Yeah but it takes no skill to achieve it.

But that's why they do it. It's the technical challenge. The feeling of achievement and pride once it's complete.

I'm sure there are people that are preserving the older VW's. Like you

But it's making a car 'different' that keeps people spending money on their cars.

But there does come a time when you have to question the money/performance/modern comfort equation. But saying that I've never wanted a 200BHP car. Never seen the point of it...but then I'm just an old man, what would I know.


Edited by: gbolton

 

I see your point DaveR...but in the good old days...there was no such thing as a "standard" 2L 16v mk2

Its not fair to compare a standard mk2 16v with 139BHP against a Clio 182 or Civic Type-R....the very evoloution of car technology means new "hot hatches" in 10 years time will make the Clio look slow no doubt...

Id also be doubtful that it would be easy to extract a hell of a lot more engine performace from the Clio...emissions laws & all..

Im sure a mildly tuned 16v (GVK/Tubs etc etc) could compete with a Clio...& IanB could destroy one.

 

Here we go ...

Why do we need to `open our eyes` ? Ok so you like the idea of owning a `modern` Clio or RX8. Well Good for you but I do not. I like owning my Mk2 and dont really care if I could be `left for dead` by a newer (and substantially more expensive) car. Its about style and I think my Mk2 has a sh*t load more of that commodity than some French banger that WILL fall apart after doing 50`000 miles.

Just because YOU like new cars doesnt mean we are all wrong for liking old ones ...

Well said mate

 

LMAO! this forum cracks me up you all bite so easy!

I drive a mk2 a fairly fast one at that. (bye bye R32 ) I enjoy it, thats my choice.

I didnt say anyone was wrong for having an old car or even wanting to have an old car. It just has me in hysterics the way a certain few users (yes most of you have replied already ) just get right up on your soap boxes as soon as the old car/new car things crops up!

Some people like having new cars, they are safer, more comfortable, reliable(thats questionable i know! lol) etc...

Some people like having cheaper older cars for their choice of reasons.

Alot of you on here just cant accept that though.

oh... The guy who killed a 172 in his "standard GTI".... Well firstly i said 182 not 172, thats not a typo you know
Secondly.... trust me now... he wasnt giving 100% or just cant drive! Keep dreaming geeza

 

It depends what do you want in a car

A high bhp figure or a car you love?

I know what i want and i'll stick to the old banger thanks very much

 

It would be fairly easy to take a clio up to the early 200's, since when have emmision laws counted for engine tuning?! My G60 wouldnt pass an emmisions test in its normal set up!

 

And thats your choice mate.

Personally my choice has changed now to something newer/more reliable,
something thats meant to be fast
rather than something which is pushing all its mechanical parts to their tollerances,
something thats safer in a crash
etc...

Its just annoying people on here cant respect both choices.

 

Maybe my choice will change when i grow up as well but for now i'm 110% happy with my old slow 8v.

 

I am not a top speed person anyway! Big power from modern cars maybe fast but fun? I think that the unrefined nature of older cars actually makes them more involving to drive. Very few modern cars get the juices flowing in the same way as the classics. Why do people still praise the older generation of cars such as the lancia delta and the e30 m3 along with the vw mk1's & 2's?