No point in performance mods for old cars

i've had the chance to drive and rag the s*#t out of them, a polo-mk1,mk2,mk3, golf/gti-mk1,mk2,mk3,mk4,mk5, still waiting to drive the mk5 R32, i've got a mk3 gti and if all go's well at the end of the month a mk2 gti and we should not forget were the hot hatch came from, the cars of today have no soul

 

i've had the chance to drive and rag the s*#t out of them, a polo-mk1,mk2,mk3, golf/gti-mk1,mk2,mk3,mk4,mk5, still waiting to drive the mk5 R32, i've got a mk3 gti and if all go's well at the end of the month a mk2 gti and we should not forget were the hot hatch came from, who made them and why, the cars of today have no soul

 

FFS what a stupid question, EVERYBODY knows the answer to that one

More valves = more power = LESS TORQUE

 

What total and utter bollox.

An import CTR (the JDM one) - no soul?
A GT3 RS - no soul?
An Ariel Atom - no soul?
A Bentley Brooklands - no soul?

That's just an excuse to make yourself feel better.
The Pug 205GTi 1.9 will always be the definitive hot hatch, followed by the Clio Williams.
They just don't last very long.

 

not exactly a good example there, not available to the masses financially.

They are not the definitive hatch at all. They have great handling - thats it. It takes more than just great handling to be the definitive hatch.

The interiors are awful, in fact worse than awful. The reliability is suspect, especially electrics. They rote like hell, feel cheap and tacky and for those reasons they do not have the reputation or following of Golfs, plus they all followed the blueprint that VW showed them.

 

shockingly naff example lol

pug 205 is good... doubt youll find half as many in half as good condition as you will with similar age mk2s

therefore. they are crap because they dont last. golf wins

 

Of course, I'm banging my head against the wall.

But having owned a mk2 GTi, a mk3 GTi 16V and a mk4 R32, I would have thought I knew a little bit about Golf. Between my immediate family, we have had 15 Golfs too in various guises.

Mk2 Golf owners get a little too up themselves far too often - yes they are a classic, yes they are fun, yes they are well made but they aren't exactly a uR Audi Quattro, a Delta Integrale, a mk1 Escort Mexico, a Clio Williams, etc are they?

I actually preferred my mk3 to my mk2 overall.

The old car vs new car argument has been done to death - whether you buy new or old, you'll justify it to yourself. And so it's an unwinnable "argument" really.

 

you are banging your head against the wall when you compare a mk2 golf to

An import CTR (the JDM one) - no soul?
A GT3 RS - no soul?
An Ariel Atom - no soul?
A Bentley Brooklands - no soul?

when i said your example was daft i was refering to the comparision between mk2 golfs and 205s. no real dispute the 205 is potent, but if it doesnt last, whats the point unless you want a trailer queen

either way, back to banging your head on the wall. youve got the mad road taxes for newer cars to think about yet too

 

Not for low emissions cars like ours though!

Why is the comparison between a 205 and a mk2 Golf naff? Yes Golfs last longer but you can still look after a Pug (that's how Lancias are still on the road - EXTREME car care!) and it will still handle better and go faster than a mk2 16v Golf. They were also made at the same time.

I thought the handling on my mk2 was pretty good, but nothing astonishing.
I have driven modern Fords (Puma. Focus ST170 and new shape ST) with better handling, even though they are much heavier. And they have proper brakes too which I find useful when driving rapidly.

 

lancia delta's are a different breed, especially as not even a tenth of the members on here could buy one as there wouldn't be enough of them, they are uber rare - and also pretty sexual.

to me, the 205 vs golf thing is a similar arguement to TVR - Ferarri - reason? well all TVR owners will tell you that thier car is quicker than a ferrari, rarer, cheaper etc and they are right bout all of that.

But a ferrari owner will always know that they have a properly engineered car that will actually handle the abuse it was designed to do - albeit they are fragile as any strung out car is they are no where like TVR

oh and Focus RS is the best new car I have driven, not driven mk5 gti though

 

They stopped making the Focus RS about four years ago!
You mean the new ST?

A Ferrari is a VERY bad example of proper engineering - yes they go very well but they are incredibly flimsy and even top end models like the 612 have silly problems that such cars just shouldn't have.
The inlaws had a 355, my Dad had a 308GT4 and we know others who have had newer Ferraris - all are very fast but flimsier than an old Lancia Beta.

For proper fast car driving and engineering excellence, it has to be Porsche.

 

agreed porche is a better example.... but you get the point...

Well I know the RS isn't new but you would consider it as the new breed of cars compared to old skool 80's hatch... bot driven the ST but if its as good as the RS i would have one....

went for a ferrari driving day (old 355 admittedly) and can honestly say the Focus RS was more fun that we warmed up in..... but thats probably for another thread!! lol

 

I tested the Focus RS before I got the R32 and it was a lot of fun - but easy to crash in the wrong hands.
Reports suggest they are very inconsistent - some are great, others are duffers.
You might not have got the best out of the 355 - I was insured on it and really pushed it hard (on public roads) - really enjoyed it but hard work overall.

The ST170 is still one of the best handling FWD cars I've driven - even better than the RS, despite it's weedy torqueless fart of an engine.

 

carefull!!! has the same torque as my abf lol

you can't get the best out of any revving supercar when your restricted to half its available revs lol total waste of money imo

 

That would nark me - the F355 is most fun about about 8K RPM on a nice wideish A road.
Then it's really fun....

 

yeah exactly, if i had paid for it I would have asked for my money back tbh.... it was old, tired and being nursed along by not being driven anywhere near its full capacity...

single seater the next time I do an experience day for sure.... no one to tell you to slow down lol

 

Pretty futile thread, huh?

My view on old vs new cars is based more on design than driving feel.
Simply due to the fact that I look at a lot more cars than I drive, and I love looking at cars.

Older performance cars have so much more more visual integrity and elegance than new performance cars, mainly due to the fact that they were more pared-down, with fewer safety features and comforts - more purposeful.
The sportscar designers of yesteryear didn't resort to the single visual trick used today - aggression.
Take a look at early Porsches, Ferraris, Maseratis, even Lamborghinis. Pure elegance, beauty and poise. Overall, they look so much lighter than their new counterparts too.
Fast-forward to today and the whole sportscar scene seems to be a competition to see who can design a car that looks the most aggressive, most like a Ninja / Hoodie / Predator / Alien / Alien vs Predator.
Yawn.

Miura or Murcielago?
911S 2.4 or 997 Carrera?
XK-E Lightweight or XKR?
250GTO or F430 Scuderia?

The former in all cases, for me.

There are a handful of new cars that excite me; the Alfa 8C Competizione and the Maserati GranTurismo are injecting some much-needed glamour back into the proceedings, and the Gallardo has real road-presence yet looks half the weight of its hooligan big brother.
Mainstream new cars are truly dull, there's barely anything I'd want to own over an 80's/90's classic like an HF Integrale.

 

couldn't agree more.....

there are a few modern exeptions to this for me...

997 I think still has the core roots as the old ones - gt3 form is my fav...

Zonda - just the most magical car ever in my eye's.....

but in terms of new 'normal' cars... all hatches have the same euro easy on the eye look, then you have 4 door rally rep... try telling the difference between them with your eye's squinted...

 

I would love to have in my dream garage a TVR cerbera, porsche 911 Ruf, i've had a go in the 205 1.8 and been in the 1.9 205, good cars but what about the renault 5 GT turbo, i was allowed to drive one to the garage and back when i was about 16/17 sacred the pants off me, it was chipped, the old cars are for drivers your feet and hands do the work not the ABS, PS or the ESP, it's more fun to do it's yourself then to have some one do it for you