now you see it....

mine are 20mm pins, this car drives me mad, been sat here for three hours trying to find out anything i can about the car, the series, even who built the d%<m thing. it's a complete mystery. Guessing i'm going to limit myself with this block!! Bill did you get an e-mail from me within the last couple of days..

 

forgot to say, Danster, the spare is a complete engine already built up, it's what was actually in the car when i bought it. The spare was (the now broke one) was built up before last season as the other had oil issues which i thought might go with the new one!!!! no chance, they came with the new one, hense all the pipework, catch tanks, oil seperators etc around the engine bay. This engine doesnt seem to exist at the moment!!! cant find a single thing on it. onwards and.......side wards

 

still getting to grips with what we have, but going on what we know so far, 82mm bore, could be .5 more, 94mm stroke, a compression height distance of 31mm, wossner do pistons which match these figures :
Stroke: 92.8
Displacement: 1983 ccm
Wossner Comp. Ratio: 12.3:1
OE Comp. Ratio: 8.9:1
Piston Weight(grams ): 295
but as you can see the comp ratio goes up to 12:3:1, would that mean a straight swap? (not buying, just trying to make sense of it all)! Granted i still need to know what we definately have here.

 

yes, its sat in my inbox along with others waiting my attention
been a bit pre-occupied this week after being burgled last week

 

thats cool Bill, any update with the little s~*^s ? no rush for the reply, cheers

 

There are a few after market companies like Wossner and JE for example, that will make high compression pistons for a NA 20v engine.
I would question your stroke being 94mm though. 92.8 or 95.5 (diesel) would be more realistic IMO.
12.3:1 comp ratio will need a fairly long duration cam.

You will need to get everything accurately measured to prior to deciding on a plan. Your new block will need to be rebored to suit the new pistons unless you manage to source an OEM one with the bore size you wish to use. Possibly an ALT block will work.
I am very surprised that a one make race series (where your car / engine originated from?) was using an engine that required so much work TBH.

 

a lot of this doesn't make sense Danster, the fact that i cant for the life of me find any info on the engine makes me wonder about all sorts. it would make a lot of sense to get a freshly built short engine to go with the head rather than all this futhing about business. I remember days gone by when TSR use to do short race blocks, will have to have a noise. Again your right about how much effort seems to gone into a race engine for a one make series!!! puzzling. What i need is a strong plan/idea of what to do /where to go......i just want it running again....[:^(]

 

Where did the spare engine come from? Both SA origin?

Isn't this an ex-Racing Line car, formerly run by them, or did they just mediate a sale from SA to you? Have they any info on it if they ran it?

 

Chris, it is an ex VWR car but it never ran. They had just taken on extra Golfs at the time so had no time for this. It was sat in the corner of the workshop taking up space, rather it was in head office's aircraft size hanger!! in MK. The engine that just went bang was the 'new' one built up from parts that came with the car, so basically what i have left assembled is the origional engine from the car, same spec. They have no tech details on the car themselves, but will be speeking with Sam today to source contact details etc. I think we tried before, but hey, lets try again. There must be someone who knows something.

 

I dont think they'd seal or flow that well!

There are "loads" of options to put something good together. Supertech do good valves for these, poss even R.E.C.

J.E pistons are very good (far better than other paperweights mentioned) and can custom make what you want (I use them at 13:1 on some engines... good o'l 8v!) so your not limited to what you see in their listings.

Sounds like it could have been a turbo engine fitted with atmo pistons (?) to raise the c.r, re-pro cams and prob not much else. I cant imagine it would have been a complex engine for a race series.

You could also send your cams to a UK company to have the profile checked rather then a round trip to Cat Cams.

 

No listing for 20v valves at REC

 

If that is aimed at what I suggested, can you explain why the Wossner pistons are no use please? Are they worse than the std VW pistons which is were fitted and failed in this instance?
I was merely stating that there are options out there, and he needs to be careful in ordering the correct items with regard to compression, bore, crown height, pin size etc.

 

everything on here is all good info for me, the pistons that where in and what i have as a new set in a box as well as the ones in the other engine are not VAG......i hope. The rods are as we have to keep them, all be it we can lighten them down to the lightest one. I first looked at the JP stuff and was very interested in what they do, but as said earlier, i'm still a learner in terms of proper engine building. Sure i can screw one together but the real nitty gritty stuff....i cant do. So you guys firing off nice bits of tech stuff is all very good for me. In the same way i wanted to know about buying say the crowns to just swap into the spare engine, can it be done...cant it be done, if everything is the same size as whats in there why wont it work, you see, already learnt a bit about that. The reason i mentioned the Wossner stuff was purely because i saw on the site a crown that matched what i had but was a different C/R. So i wanted to know how would this be if they where the same dimensions as the ones i have.....hope you get my drift. But please keep any ideas coming or thoughts on what i could do to get a decent engine up and running.

 

mr Hillclimber i think your right, was always under the impression it was the 1.8T block, bored, with different crank and pistons to make 2ltrs, but it doesnt help there are no numbers on it, but then it came up it could just be the 2ltr block, who knows. Should go and have another look at the crank that came out, does anyone know if they normally carry a part number, about the only place i cant see is behind the crank sensor wheel as i haven't removed it yet, apart from that, it's just what i said above, the 6AAJ number on it. Need to find someone local who can measure all this up, cams etc

 

The second block pictured is a 1.8T again - the missing numbers are very shallow, so must have been pre-stamping or ground off.

There may be an 06A casting mark in the exhaust port side of the block - check that to be sure.

Certainly your block 1 (the blow up one) has an 06A 021C marking in the front + Mexico marking which corresponds to an AUM engine, but could equally well correspond with many other internal water pump 1.8T blocks.

 

in the garage now so just had a look, the spare is marked up 06A103021C, Germany, but my ETKA says no. Cant seem to find anything, as you said the broke one is mexico, 06A021C

 

Yes, that's an internal water pump 1.8T. ETKA won't show anything, since it shows short block assemblies, pistons included etc - they don't seem to list bare blocks.

More here.

 

The word on the street is.... whilst the pistons in question are "made" in Germany, the forgings are made in Turkey and then the finish machining is done in Germany. Cracking is an issue in some applications. Did'nt someone on here have a problem with some?

Anyway, your spot on with the cast piston c.r cracking limit... around 11.5:1 and above should only be used with a forged piston.

I use J.E's & Cosworth pistons at 13:1 without an issue (the JE's for 2 years, my Cosy's 7 years + the abuse they had before I got them.. they're way over 10 years old). CP pistons are another great piston... CP is part of the Pankel group... Pankel make F1 bits.

In the UK, Accralite & Omega are great pistons, though at a price.

 

Genuine vag are likely to be KS or Mahle, so good gear. But, as they'll be a cast piston I still would'nt use more than 11-11.5:1. More c.r can be used for short use sprint engines than something used under load for long periods... i.e circuit race engines.

More c.r is possible because of a raised crown... the basic shape is similar but a raised intruder crown reduces the chamber volume in the head, and thus the c.r.

 

I think Brookster's piston cracking problem was down to the incorrect head for the block, causing the outer perimeter above the ring land to contact the edge of the combustion chamber around the gasket area.
The problem when fitting a 027 head casting on a larger bored engine when using intruder pistons.

Undoubtedly there are excellent piston manufacturers in this country but not sure an off the shelf product would be available for this application.
JE and Wossner do make Pistons for the NA 20v though.

I would think any piston would be better than the ones that were fitted in Coupechamps engine. Home made slipper pistons with a hacksaw! No wonder they fell to bits.

I couldn't convince him to go 8v either!